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Old 28th April 2012, 04:46 PM
Dan Offline
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Question So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Tell you the truth, I've kind of lost track of the running battle folks have been having with the accelerated 3D drivers for ATI cards. After watching the mayhem for a while, I just installed a mental shortcut aversion to them (ATI/AMD video chipsets) and went along on the assumption that Nvidia and Intel were the way to go in Linux (in general) and fedora (in particular).

My experiences with Nouveau have not been stellar. Considerably less than that, in fact. The terms "slow" and "buggy" leap to top of mind when I hear the name. And recently, the complete lack of 173xx drivers for older Nvidia chipset (FX5200) have left me a bit disgusted with Nvidia legacy support in the last few releases and kernels. Methinks I can see where this is headed, and the bottom line is, currently supported AGP Nvidia cards are getting scarce as hen's teeth.

All of which leads to a re-assessment of the available options.

So ...

Whussup with the ATI/AMD stuff these days? <....>


Is it worth putting them back on the table for consideration, and if so ... which ones in particular?
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Old 28th April 2012, 05:33 PM
Dan Offline
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Hmmm.

This would indicate not much has changed with ATI/AMD. <....>

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...01#post1572801

Ok ... so how about anyone with anything positive to say about them, please post it here.
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Old 28th April 2012, 07:54 PM
gadgetwiz Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

I'm in the same situation, Dan. I have an AGP mainboard and really don't want to put any money into a dead technology.

I'm wondering if it might make more sense to go ahead and upgrade my mainboard to a PCI Express model ($50 onsale). I can use the same CPU, ram is cheap and hopefully, any newer model nVidia PCIE video card I purchase now won't become obsolete in the near future.

I see where you're going, though. I'd certainly consider an ATI/AMD based AGP card, if it were cheap. It's a dilemma.
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Old 29th April 2012, 02:16 AM
Zx123 Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

I've been bitten by nVidia's lack of support for a legacy AGP card, and found the rigaramarole with installing the accelerated driver a pain. I couldn't see any point looking for another AGP card, even S/H. It was getting time for a new M/B, CPU and hard drive anyway but that helped make the decision.

I bought a cheap PCIE radeon 4350 card and I've had no problems. It may not have stellar performance, but I find it OK.

ATI/AMD seem to be putting a lot of effort into graphics and they've produced a processor with integrated graphics, The range seems to change pretty quickly.

I'd at least want some substantial reassurance before spending a lot of money on a graphics card for a Linix system, nVidia or ATI.
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Old 29th April 2012, 02:47 AM
tox
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

only time i have had such problems with Nouveau is with F17 but i believe there is a Bug with it with cards Geforce460 an Newer,

all in all i think its a catch22 with either Videocard Nvidia or AMD/ATI . but i haven't touched a ATI card since 2005? maybe 2004,
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Old 29th April 2012, 02:48 AM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

It's a shame, because like Dan stated it used to be a no-brainer for me; "stick with nVidia and you'll be fine", is what I eventually told myself after much frustration with ATI years ago.

Now however, it seems like that is becoming less and less true. I am currently on an IBM T60 with an ATI Radeon Mobility x1300, and the open source radeon driver works just great, whereas my ancient Geforce 7800GT on my desktop will not work with nouveau without lockup. Therefore, I am forced to use the proprietary driver on my desktop.

Sadly, I also hear that nVidia Optimus is not yet supported.

As for the ATI open source drivers, Radeons up to the X1xxx series are fully supported, with full 2D and 3D acceleration..but Radeons from HD 2xxx to HD 6xxx have full 2D acceleration and only partially functional 3D acceleration, but are not supported by all the features that the proprietary driver provides (for example, powersaving may not be fully fiunctional on all models).

As for the proprietary Catalyst drivers, they only supportR6xx (HD2xxx) or newer cards.
Also, Catalyst 9.10-10.11 apparently does not support nForce4 motherboard chipsets.

So, I guess a safer "no-brainer" nowadays would be Intel...but in my opinion, that's really only acceptable for a laptop.
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Old 29th April 2012, 02:59 AM
Dan Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Quote:
So, I guess a safer "no-brainer" nowadays would be Intel...but in my opinion, that's really only acceptable for a laptop.
Agreed. But in a laptop, for both power and thermal reasons as well as driver issues, that's the choice I am making these days. While not ideal, they do function with minimal fuss, and right out of the box ... unless it happens to be one that Gnome Shell can't manage to get right. Which seems like a "no-brainer" to me, but ... <....>

You know ... in a lot of ways ... Gnome Shell reminds me a lot of Microsoft's Vista®. Lotsa hype, impressive initial overview, and pretty to look at, and with the right gear, it seemed like a really good idea at the time ... but ... in the trenches on less than optimal clunk-ware ...

... not so much.


<....>
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Old 29th April 2012, 03:10 AM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Agreed. But in a laptop, for both power and thermal reasons as well as driver issues, that's the choice I am making these days. While not ideal, they do function with minimal fuss, and right out of the box ...
Fully agree.
Quote:
unless it happens to be one that Gnome Shell can't manage to get right. Which seems like a "no-brainer" to me, but ... <....>

You know ... in a lot of ways ... Gnome Shell reminds me a lot of Microsoft's Vista®. Lotsa hype, impressive initial overview, and pretty to look at, and with the right gear, it seemed like a really good idea at the time ... but ... in the trenches on less than optimal clunk-ware ...

... not so much.


<....>
I first tried out GNOME when I installed Red Hat Linux (8?) in 2004. It came with a "Linux for Dummies" book I bought on a whim.
I must admit, I never liked GNOME, and quickly became a KDE user. I also then had a few years of OpenBox minimalism and then settled down with XFCE for a few years until a pesky eject bug caused by exo and HAL drove me back to KDE.

I suppose I feel your pain though, because the transition from KDE 3-4 was..less than ideal, I suppose.

I dunno. To me, GNOME always felt like it was hiding everything from me.
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Old 29th April 2012, 03:24 AM
Dan Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

As a result of getting to know Gnome 3, I'm really starting to learn to appreciate both e16 and Enlightenment. <....>
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Old 29th April 2012, 03:26 AM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
As a result of getting to know Gnome 3, I'm really starting to learn to appreciate both e16 and Enlightenment. <....>
I haven't tried them in years. Are they usable/stable nowadays? Actually I think it was E17 that I tried, if memory serves...
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Old 29th April 2012, 03:33 AM
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Both are quite serviceable. e16 for light resources, and Enlightenment for eye candy.


These are from e16 on F16.







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Old 29th April 2012, 03:47 AM
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Impressive!
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Old 29th April 2012, 04:25 AM
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Enlightenment always makes my head spin. I can see why folks like it though. For lightweight desktops with just enough eye candy I've actually really grown close to Window Maker, which I use on my RAM starved netbook. Desktop I still use KDE...or um, recently, Unity :O Yes I can't...believe it either.

As for ATI, hmm. I still think NVIDIA are ahead on Linux even just taking the proprietery drivers into account. You see the ATI open source drivers perform well enough, but erm...power management. I cant bear it on a laptop, it just runs too hot and loud. The proprietery drivers manage power/thermals okay, but can perform like a dog in the likes of Unity or Gnome-Shell etc etc (maybe even XFCE).

Whereas the NVIDIA drivers, whether it be Nouveau or the official NVIDIA blob, seem to perform mostly the same in terms of desktop responsiveness and power management (in my experience). I use the NVIDIA blob on my desktop though simply because it opens up the 3D power that much more, for the time being.
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Old 29th April 2012, 05:05 AM
Dan Offline
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Quote:
Enlightenment always makes my head spin. I can see why folks like it though.
Yeah, it did mine, too -- until I quit trying to mentally and materially turn it into Gnome or KDE or something equally familiar, and just started taking it for what it is. When I did that, it opened up a whole 'nuther set of possibilities. In fact, the combination of F16 and e16/E17 turned the old Fukushima Special back into a useful machine again.
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Old 29th April 2012, 05:47 AM
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Re: So ... what about ATI/AMD these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tox View Post
only time i have had such problems with Nouveau is with F17 but i believe there is a Bug with it with cards Geforce460 an Newer,

all in all i think its a catch22 with either Videocard Nvidia or AMD/ATI . but i haven't touched a ATI card since 2005? maybe 2004,
There is a bug with Nvidia Geforce GTX 460 v2 which caused Anaconda to run blank, workaround as to use VESA. I am currently use rpmfusion binary of nvidia.

For AMD, I am using Zacate powered laptop with Radeon driven. I haven't tested fglrx driver yet.
Speaking of Enlightenment, has somebody managed to bring it back to Fedora repository?
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