Now if we could just get them to design a decent sized Pickup truck ...

[Dan]

... I might be sorely tempted to get into debt on one.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...ntcmp=features

[beaker_]

Paying 10c per kwh at 85kW * 1h = $8.50 + a whole lot of smiles per mile. Last I checked, $8.50 would get ~ 100km of "prudent" driving... assuming I farted in the gas tank ie., So yeah I'll buy one, just as soon as they toss in a wood-stove for a heater.

[droidhacker]

Cute, but at $77400 for a 265 mile range (for an aerodynamic car, not a pickup with a brick wall payload...)... you're blowing all your fuel savings in the price of the battery... and then some.

For comparison,
Base model Toyota Tacoma $22100 (canada), runs 7.7L/100 km @ $1.24/L
80L tank gets you 1039 km.

So, 77400-22100=$55300 left over to buy gas.
55300/1.24=44597L
44597L*100km/7.7L=579181 km.

So already pushing 600 thousand km at break even (at CANADIAN fuel prices and CANADIAN purchase price -- both are cheaper in the US), and haven't even factored in cost of electricity or battery replacement, extra cost of much higher capacity battery needed for a truck over a sports car. I'm thinking that you'd have to go WAY over a MILLION km before the electric started making financial sense.... and we all know that you aren't going to put THAT many miles on it before its shot/worn right out.

Electric vehicles are a nice idea, and may be a good goal LONG TERM (so I'm not suggesting that the current offerings / R&D are a bad thing by any means...), but viable long range vehicles are a very long way out.


And what is needed in the interim isn't high priced sports cars, but for things like GOLF CARTS to be allowed to operate on city streets -- mass availability of cheap short-range city cars that "get the job done" that you can use to cruise around the local area without expensive vehicles.

[beaker_]

Originally Posted by droidhacker

Cute, but at $77400 for a 265 mile range (for an aerodynamic car, not a pickup with a brick wall payload...)... you're blowing all your fuel savings in the price of the battery... and then some.

For comparison,
Base model Toyota Tacoma $22100 (canada), runs 7.7L/100 km @ $1.24/L
80L tank gets you 1039 km.

So, 77400-22100=$55300 left over to buy gas.
55300/1.24=44597L
44597L*100km/7.7L=579181 km.

So already pushing 600 thousand km at break even (at CANADIAN fuel prices and CANADIAN purchase price -- both are cheaper in the US), and haven't even factored in cost of electricity or battery replacement, extra cost of much higher capacity battery needed for a truck over a sports car. I'm thinking that you'd have to go WAY over a MILLION km before the electric started making financial sense.... and we all know that you aren't going to put THAT many miles on it before its shot/worn right out.

Electric vehicles are a nice idea, and may be a good goal LONG TERM (so I'm not suggesting that the current offerings / R&D are a bad thing by any means...), but viable long range vehicles are a very long way out.


And what is needed in the interim isn't high priced sports cars, but for things like GOLF CARTS to be allowed to operate on city streets -- mass availability of cheap short-range city cars that "get the job done" that you can use to cruise around the local area without expensive vehicles.

Wow..., I have a four-wheel drive tachoma and it cost a heluva lot more that 22k and it's far from 7.7 l/100km @ 160kmph. You should sell me yours.

600k... hahahaha that's just broken in. I have an 08 with 300k that has tasted both the Labrador & Dempster highways. Other than tires and maintenance, that girl's needed only real axle seals and a rear drive shaft u-joint. You must be confusing it with a Canyon or Colorado. But I digress.

From where I'm sitting, I'd gladly pay my provincially own electric utility 9c/hWh just to po my friends and neighbours. And yeah I can and would either fill that box with lead-acid and potentially acid burn everyone 300' around me, or maybe dig deep for one of those spiffy new breathing lithium batteries, or just buy a pallet of NiMH and shrug my shoulders.
But I still have warrenty so.., I'll have to buy the whole car.

Golf carts... great another cyclist/statistic dicking around on a highway.

Would you please tell CN there are no viable long range vehicles. I'm pretty sure all their engines are diesel-electric.

[droidhacker]

Originally Posted by beaker_

Wow..., I have a four-wheel drive tachoma and it cost a heluva lot more that 22k and it's far from 7.7 l/100km @ 160kmph. You should sell me yours.

Well as I said, base model 2wd.
The 4x4's sit up taller and are geared lower (and are more expensive). No point talking about 4x4's, since a 4x2 will have better offroad/deep snow performance than any sports car.
4x4's start at 8.8 L/100 km, and yeah, they actually get it (its fun when you see the odometer rolling towards 900..). That's for a 4-cyl, of course.
Get to 6-cyl and you're over 10 L/100 km.
Let me guess... you bought a 6-cyl.

Driving, of course, has a LOT to do with fuel consumption. Friction losses are exponential after you exceed a certain threshold. Optimal fuel consumption, you'll find, is around 85-90 kph.

This is no particular vehicle, but its essence applies fairly consistently to everything, including EV (where you would substitute the words "fuel economy" with "energy efficiency"):

(numbers are compiled from FHA research)

600k... hahahaha that's just broken in. I have an 08 with 300k that has tasted both the Labrador & Dempster highways. Other than tires and maintenance, that girl's needed only real axle seals and a rear drive shaft u-joint. You must be confusing it with a Canyon or Colorado. But I digress.

GM's are shot at 100-150000 km.
How do I know? My last truck was an S10. Worthless piece of crap.
And FYI: You're only half way there.

From where I'm sitting, I'd gladly pay my provincially own electric utility 9c/hWh just to po my friends and neighbours. And yeah I can and would either fill that box with lead-acid and potentially acid burn everyone 300' around me, or maybe dig deep for one of those spiffy new breathing lithium batteries, or just buy a pallet of NiMH and shrug my shoulders.

Good luck fitting the needed capacity into the thing without weighing 5 times as much. Lead is HEAVY. NiMH capacity is much lower than lithium, so you may be building yourself some roof racks.

But I still have warrenty so.., I'll have to buy the whole car.

You'll certainly find that the warranty will be set at the point where only about 5% of vehicles have exceeded their battery life expectancy, or the warranty may specifically exclude the batteries as a "normal wear item".

Golf carts... great another cyclist/statistic dicking around on a highway.

City streets rarely move faster than a golf cart moves. Golf carts will take up road space the same as any other car does, nothing at all like pedal bikes. I'm not in any way suggesting that they go on rural highways or expressways, but if you're stuck in slow moving city traffic, I'd rather 1000 golf carts than 1000 american V8 suv's.

Would you please tell CN there are no viable long range vehicles. I'm pretty sure all their engines are diesel-electric.

Diesel-electric is hybrid. Not 100% EV (which is what we are discussing). The batteries for hybrid don't need to be nearly as high capacity.
Electric-only rail vehicles are, without exception, grid connected (3rd rail, etc.).