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  #1  
Old 24th June 2007, 08:14 AM
newfedorahat Offline
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Posts: 47
Lightbulb Issue is Resolved

Status: Issue is Resolved
Solution: You cannot "boot directly from the files you dled." It's complicated. Read the replies for more info. If you're still confused, seek mental help.

So I spent the whole day trying to figure all this out and I've only gotta so far..

Edit: There are replies; please skip boring and dull overview of events.

System notes
Windows XP Professional SP 2, 256MB RAM, 20GB HD
Bowser: Firefox considering changing to Opera if I ever get Fedora installed
Computer does not have CD burning function
I think that's all that really matters; ask for more if needed and I'll be happy to provide.

About me
-First time trying linux
-Took Computer Science I; found java unfun; plan to learn some python, ruby (starting with relatively easy ones) and all others for the sake of learning and experiencing.
-"The command prompt is that black screen window that opens up when you go to the start menu and "run" "cmd."
Yea, I see it's going to be a long night..

Side Note: If you know any freely available and high-quality materials on any subject relate to IT, please recommend them. I would be eternally grateful.

Overview of Events

Start and never stop: So I decided Fedora was the linux distribution of choice yesterday after reading about various distributions on wikipedia and the external links it had. Today, I downloaded the "Fedora-7-KDE-Live-i686.iso" file from one of the mirrors at http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/pub...Fedora/7/i386/

After some time of confusion and wondering how come it didn't come with any type of installer to make life easier, I decided to extract it using 7-zip only because I had it handy and saw that it does extract iso files according to sourceforge.net.

Either the following is the result or what I had originally:
-a isolinux folder with seven different files, none .iso file
-a sysroot folder with nothing in it
-squashfs.img

Stuff happened. Still lost.

After looking through the strange new words in the Fedora installation guide at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/
my plan is to "Run from image," if I ever get to that point.
Source: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/instal...l#sn-boot-menu

I tried to use the resources available today:

Google searches for "how to boot from livecd," "how to open a livecd," "what is a livecd" and other similar phrases but pretty much all turned out extremely unhelpful, instead providing links to "how to build a livecd." But.. I don't even know how to boot fedora, Google (side note: I find Google increasing useless as the days go by).

Status: Determined.

I'm not sure when this occurred but I tried opening all the files within the folders but none appeared relevant to booting and getting fedora started. The squashfs.img was interesting. I opened it with Windows Picture Viewer and it took ~5 mins of freezing time, where the PF usage (in windows task manager, under performance tab) rocketed and yet generated NO preview, giving a "No preview available." So why did it even tried. If no preview were available, shouldn't it have been brief? Or did something go wrong? I moved on.

Status: Undeterred.

I downloaded this "Virtual Daemon Manager V4.09HE" which had promised, by me assuming it, to solve my dilemma, and which is now at the bottom-right hand corner of the screen. I'm not sure what that section is labeled. So this Daemon thing has a feature that "mounts" the livecd onto the D:/ drive. Yea, so I "mounted" it. Now what? I moved on.

Status: Forward-looking.

I dled this "MagicISO" program. What does it do? Beats me. Appears to do something though; no doubt about that, I mean come one, 4 windows within a main window, wow.

I clicked on the about tab --> help and got this,
"MagicISO is a powerful and easy CD image file edit tool. It can create /edit /extract ISO files,make image files from CD-ROM or hard disk, and handle bootable information at meanwhile."
That helps... so what do I do now MagicISO?

It doesn't speak so I decided to extract again, just in case you know. Extracted all three (2 folders and an .img file). Don't know if anything happened.

Status: Fearless

So I thought because there is no cd in the cd-rom, boot the cd-rom at startup would be silly and pointless. I found this valid. I restarted and set the boot sequence in the bios in this order: Cd-rom - IDE-0 - something else I forget what is perceived as unimportant. Anyhow, windows started up. I despise windows; they embed too much crap into the system; ie. I can't even get rid of internet explorer; it just keeps coming back.

Other events took place.

How far I've come:
-a isolinux folder with seven different files, none .iso file
-a sysroot folder with nothing in it
-squashfs.img

It appears awfully familiar..

I also have this "Fedora-7-KDE-Live-i686" file which is stand-alone (not in the main folder containing the -squashfs.img and those two other folder.) It doesn't do anything. I wish when I double-click it, the os automatically installs onto the hard drive.

My current state has neither evolved nor changed: Lost, still.

If you are one of those smart people who knows what they are doing, please be very, very detailed unlike Fedora's Installation "guide," which causes confusions for my POV.

And no. Do not recommend that I install ubuntu, or some other simpler form of linux for hopeless new ones like me. This should be easy enough.

Continue and Progress.

Last edited by newfedorahat; 25th June 2007 at 07:40 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #2  
Old 24th June 2007, 09:13 AM
John the train Offline
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The folders you list are what will be on a Live CD, but what do you mean by ' computer will not burn CD's '? Do you only have a CD-ROM drive, ( that would be unusual these days ) or can't you burn an ISO image to disc? I believe that the built-in Windows CD burner can't handle ISO images, but the 3rd-party burners can.
I seem to recall seeing threads on installing from a HD image, hopefully someone who's been that route will pick up on this thread.
If it makes you feel better, quite a few of us have had grief with the Live CD appoach!
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  #3  
Old 24th June 2007, 09:36 AM
markkuk Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfedorahat
Computer cannot burn CDs
That's the part you must fix to make any progress. You are just wasting your time trying to "extract" the .ISO image, what you must do is to burn the image on a CD-ROM. If that's really impossible for you then you need to purchase a LiveCD on physical media.
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  #4  
Old 24th June 2007, 11:37 AM
cicatrix1 Offline
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A live CD is essentially a basic version of the OS with a decent sample of software so that you can get a "feel" for the distribution. Once you have booted from the live CD, it has installation options, or you can just kind of play around (but it probably won't be as fast as a native install, and changes you make won't really be permanent).

Looks like you downloaded the .iso file, which is essentially a CD image that is waiting to be burned to a disc. If your PC is not capable of burning CDs, then you'll need to purchase/order the live CD, or simply download it on another PC that does have a burner, and get your disc created.

After that it *should* be as simple as restarting your PC with the live CD in the drive. Sometimes, depending on your PCs (BIOS) configuration you may have to push a key to specify to boot from CD-ROM (usually it's f12, but it depends on the manufacturer/board/BIOS).

Once you do get the image running, should you decide to install FC7, I would advise you to be very careful and make sure to thoroughly read everything the installer tells you as it moves along. Note that it's possible to cause damage to your existing setup if you do not properly partition your drive. It's not super-hard, but you just want to be a little careful

Good luck!
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  #5  
Old 24th June 2007, 06:48 PM
newfedorahat Offline
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Lightbulb

Thank you for the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John the train
The folders you list are what will be on a Live CD, but what do you mean by ' computer will not burn CD's '? Do you only have a CD-ROM drive
Yes, only have a CD-ROM drive. I apologize; I should have been more clear one that statement. And plan to have only a Cd-rom in the next few years, as I would rarely need a burning function. In this scenario, it would come in handy but that's a one time thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markkuk
That's the part you must fix to make any progress. You are just wasting your time trying to "extract" the .ISO image, what you must do is to burn the image on a CD-ROM.
From what I understood, burning the .iso image onto a cd was only one method. The method preferred due to system limitations was to have the .iso images stored into memory and then install the livecd onto the hard drive, rewriting the previous os. Take ubuntu for instance which my brother tried to install though went unsuccessfully. From what I understand of that, you aren't require to burn the livecd onto a cd and can install into onto the hard drive supposedly without much difficulty. Please correct me if I misunderstood the Fedora IG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicatrix1
Once you have booted from the live CD, it has installation options, or you can just kind of play around (but it probably won't be as fast as a native install, and changes you make won't really be permanent).
Yes, that is what they said here, http://docs.fedoraproject.org/instal...l#sn-boot-menu
but I don't even know how to boot from the livecd, and still don't (only from the livcd, no burning; see above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicatrix1
Looks like you downloaded the .iso file, which is essentially a CD image that is waiting to be burned to a disc.
Is the .iso file not what everyone dls?

Anyhow, I'm confuse at why I currently have a one main folder composing of 2 folders and a .img that "John the train" said was the livecd, and then I have the .iso, mentioned initially, separate from the folders.

And the most importont thing: Can nobody dl the files onto their hard drives without burning it onto a cd first? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/instal...harddrive.html

When they said "you may use ISO image files of the Fedora discs to continue the installation process," does that mean the .iso I dled from the mirror of the "Fedora discs" (aka: livecd?)

As a note, my little brother, who has a burner and a much better PC then me, but also knows nothing about this, tried dling Fedora 7 (this morning) from mirror --> but he didn't get any .iso files which he found out after dling this "ISO recorder" I heard mentioned on a different forum, but like I said, no .iso files so program is functionless. He has some sort of burning program (free one) but told me that he couldn't burn it, but only copy because burning requiring full version or something like that. I don't think he knows what he's doing either (he just plays WOW).

Might anyone recommend a free burning program that can get the job done easily, and that I could suggest to others if they ever need one (but they likely have one). And please, no viruses! This "Daemon" tool had a virus according to my avast scanner, but then again the avast program could've been reading it wrong. Who knows.

Last edited by newfedorahat; 24th June 2007 at 08:43 PM.
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  #6  
Old 24th June 2007, 07:10 PM
newfedorahat Offline
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Lightbulb

1) http://www.vmwarez.com/2006/02/livec...l-machine.html
doesn't seem to be what I need, rather it adds more complications; apparently for those who wishes to test out livecds. I want to install the livecd..

2) http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mj...l#installmedia
seems to be really nice after I get past this unknown blockage.

From the second link:
"Booting the disk will start the Anaconda installer which will allow Fedora to be installed on your computer." Now I want to do that, but how...

"The CD-ROM disks are "LiveCD's" which can be booted and will run a basic Fedora 7 in memory." The Cd-rom disks meaning the livecd files? and after I run Fedora 7 into memory, I can simply install it onto the hard drive with a click of the button, right??

Everything else on that page appears irrelevant at this stage.

Here's that like to the iso recorder, http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/v2.htm, mentioned previously. Did not progress issues.

Last edited by newfedorahat; 24th June 2007 at 07:40 PM.
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  #7  
Old 24th June 2007, 07:57 PM
newfedorahat Offline
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by markkuk
You are just wasting your time trying to "extract" the .ISO image, what you must do is to burn the image on a CD-ROM.
My brother is dling the file from,
http://mirror.stanford.edu/fedora/li...s/7/Live/i386/
and he's going to try to burn it again. Does he need to extract it first?
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  #8  
Old 24th June 2007, 08:02 PM
markkuk Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfedorahat
From what I understood, burning the .iso image onto a cd was only one method.
You can install using the DVD .ISO image stored on a FAT32 partition, but AFAIK this method isn't available with the LiveCD image. The "Install to Hard Disk application" mentioned in the Install Guide isn't the same as the install from hard disk method available with other boot media. You still need the boot media either on CD or an USB stick, you can't start the installation from Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfedorahat
but I don't even know how to boot from the livecd, and still don't (only from the livcd, no burning; see above).
You don't have a LiveCD before you burn one from the .ISO file.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfedorahat
When they said "you may use ISO image files of the Fedora discs to continue the installation process," does that mean the .iso I dled from the mirror of the "Fedora discs" (aka: livecd?)
Fedora 7 doesn't have installation CD images, only the install DVD image and LiveCD images. As I wrote above, you need the DVD image for installing from hard drive.
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  #9  
Old 24th June 2007, 08:36 PM
newfedorahat Offline
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by markkuk
You can install using the DVD .ISO image stored on a FAT32 partition, but AFAIK this method isn't available with the LiveCD image. The "Install to Hard Disk application" mentioned in the Install Guide isn't the same as the install from hard disk method available with other boot media. You still need the boot media either on CD or an USB stick, you can't start the installation from Windows.

You don't have a LiveCD before you burn one from the .ISO file.

Fedora 7 doesn't have installation CD images, only the install DVD image and LiveCD images. As I wrote above, you need the DVD image for installing from hard drive.
Well that clears up some of the points. They (various sites I read) really shouldn't call the files (not just fedora) a livecd then.

Anyhow, as I mentioned before, my brother is dling the file so can anyone suggest a good, free burning program?

Last edited by newfedorahat; 24th June 2007 at 08:40 PM.
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  #10  
Old 24th June 2007, 09:28 PM
kagesenshi Offline
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.iso files are an exact copy of a physical CD/DVD into a file .. ever heard of Virtual CD drives ?? .. if yes, most of those applications uses copies a CD into .iso file in ur harddisk and emulate it as a physical drive ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_image

to use an iso image, you need to burn it.. http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm

as for LiveCDs .. it is a term used to define a CD that have an OS installed in it .. after you have burn the CD, you can directly boot and run the OS from the CD .. without the need of installation .. certain liveCDs have install-to-harddisk capability .. and fedora is one of it .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveCD

Linux doesnt run on top of windows btw .. dont expect to find any .exe files from the iso images ... you should get the CD and boot from it, as you would do when you want to install windows ..

I hope this will clear ur misunderstanding of the .iso files..

as the others suggested .. you should order a burned fedora cd from somewhere ... the other alternative processes of installing through bootable floppies etc are not really for newbies ...

Last edited by kagesenshi; 24th June 2007 at 09:31 PM.
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  #11  
Old 24th June 2007, 10:09 PM
newfedorahat Offline
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Lightbulb

"Fedora Ambassador for Malaysia, MY!!" That's, uh, interesting. hmm...
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  #12  
Old 25th June 2007, 04:13 AM
newfedorahat Offline
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Well I got it installed on to the hard drive and it's up and running...
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  #13  
Old 25th June 2007, 04:23 AM
Zigzagcom Offline
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He could always use VMware Player to run the iso on windows....and it is free.
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  #14  
Old 25th June 2007, 07:09 AM
kagesenshi Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfedorahat
Solution: You cannot "boot directly from the files you dled," unlike other livecd. It just doesn't work that way, you must burn it. Read the replies for more info.
huh? .. theres are other livecd that can boot from downloaded files?? .. If u say its the older ubuntu , fyi, older ubuntu liveCD have 2 sections -> liveCD and a folder of windows opensource softwares .. and a menu (for the windows softwares) will autorun when u insert the CD in windows ..
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  #15  
Old 25th June 2007, 07:37 AM
newfedorahat Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagesenshi
theres are other livecd that can boot from downloaded files??
I meant that some have installers that you can then use to install onto the hard drive without having to burn anything, and then you can boot from.. etc.

I'll go and rephrase the solution...
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