Fedora Linux Support Community & Resources Center
  #1  
Old 25th June 2007, 07:31 PM
shallowz Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 68
Fedora is frustrating discussion

I hope itís ok that I am posting this on this section
Some back ground I am in IT and have been for a while. I read about the promises of Linux for a while and have always followed it. Every once in a while I try it.
I just uploaded the newest and greatest fedora on a server.
If you donít want to use fedora to do anything but office products and play the default games that came with the system. Fedora is frustrating
I am by no means a Linux god I'm barely a beginner. Its getting better and I do get impressed with some of the cool things that are allowed.
What frustrates me the most with Linux is that the default setting never ever seem to work. You always have to go deep to some file someplace to make a small change to make a program work. To be honest that wouldnít be such a big deal. the real problem is the days no not hours it takes of searching and asking questions and begging people to maybe help you to find the answer.
I hate Microsoft so much and want very much to move our company away from it. But it works it works well. When you want to send an email, you add your email settings and you send it off. On Linux you send an email then you get an error. So you try to find the setting, which is impossible. So you ask around some one tells you where it is. You add your settings. Send the email same error. Then you ask more and more and more.

Why doesnít Linux default settings work?
Why do these settings cause so many problems?
Is it the lack of community that you canít find answers to problems?
Or is it that most people really donít understand Linux and have no real ideas how to fix it?

Why doesnít default sendmail and default SELinux work together?
Why is it when you go to add/remove software and you add the software it doesnít work with out days of searching for the right settings to add?
How come when you do the add software it doesnít set the correct settings?

who would love to use Linux but gets frustrated every time they use it
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25th June 2007, 08:26 PM
Wangberg Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PRC
Posts: 427
well...considering you've only tried one distro (fedora) and you're using it for a server...you may want to change it up a little. I recently tried to implement CentOS as a desktop and didn't care for it as much because the repository data was limited...but as a server, that OS is ROCK SOLID.

i've been using linux for 7 months now and i'm STILL a beginner. linux (any distro) is a steep learning curve and will take months of tweaking, breaking, fixing, asking questions and READING hundreds of man pages in order to get a grip on what you're doing.

If i were you, i'd take it one step at a time with one distro. If you find you're running into to many walls, then switch it up to another. (Personally i'd stick with Fedora because this user forum is the best i've seen of ANY linux forums.) Try and replicate what you do in windows. get this OS to work as you did windows.

As for the default settings, think of it this way...windows is designed to accommodate hundreds of thousands of third party software vendor's products and is constantly conforming to their needs, mucking up the entire system. Linux is the other way around....software is at the mercy of the OS, and therefore default settings or some line of code will always need to be tweaked. my advice would be again, to try and replicate what you do in windows (not with WIN software) but with open-source software that you can learn the ins and outs of. if you don't like X email client then try the next.

take the time and try different software....not every free open source app is a good one....it took me 7 months just to test DVD backup apps and i've finally settled.
__________________
focus on everything...
Get Swiftfox
registered linux user #438335
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25th June 2007, 08:28 PM
Wangberg Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PRC
Posts: 427
also, when adding and removing software...forget about GUI or add/remove software buttons....

command line is way faster and just easier. the yum package installer is great.

some basic commands are:

yum install packagename
yum remove packagename
yum update packagename
yum info packagename

do a "man yum" for more details, but that should be enough for you to add / remove what you want.
__________________
focus on everything...
Get Swiftfox
registered linux user #438335
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25th June 2007, 09:18 PM
RupertPupkin Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by shallowz
Why doesnít Linux default settings work?
Why do these settings cause so many problems?
Is it the lack of community that you canít find answers to problems?
Or is it that most people really donít understand Linux and have no real ideas how to fix it?
Why doesnít default sendmail and default SELinux work together?
Why is it when you go to add/remove software and you add the software it doesnít work with out days of searching for the right settings to add?
How come when you do the add software it doesnít set the correct settings?
I've never had any of those problems.
It could be that Linux isn't the right OS for you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25th June 2007, 09:22 PM
mdulzo Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 124
The reason that settings need to be tweaked so often on linux machines is because of the diversity of system configurations. Linux and FOSS software needs to be highly configurable, without this it would be nearly impossible for a developer to release software that works with every system right out of the box. Unless your installing from source, RPM's have made the installation process alot easier. So like wangberg said, stick with yum and hopefully the installation process will be less time consuming.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25th June 2007, 11:29 PM
A.Serbinski Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by shallowz
I hope itís ok that I am posting this on this section
Some back ground I am in IT and have been for a while. I read about the promises of Linux for a while and have always followed it. Every once in a while I try it.
I just uploaded the newest and greatest fedora on a server.
If you donít want to use fedora to do anything but office products and play the default games that came with the system. Fedora is frustrating
I am by no means a Linux god I'm barely a beginner. Its getting better and I do get impressed with some of the cool things that are allowed.
What frustrates me the most with Linux is that the default setting never ever seem to work. You always have to go deep to some file someplace to make a small change to make a program work. To be honest that wouldnít be such a big deal. the real problem is the days no not hours it takes of searching and asking questions and begging people to maybe help you to find the answer.
I hate Microsoft so much and want very much to move our company away from it. But it works it works well. When you want to send an email, you add your email settings and you send it off. On Linux you send an email then you get an error. So you try to find the setting, which is impossible. So you ask around some one tells you where it is. You add your settings. Send the email same error. Then you ask more and more and more.

Why doesnít Linux default settings work?
Why do these settings cause so many problems?
Is it the lack of community that you canít find answers to problems?
Or is it that most people really donít understand Linux and have no real ideas how to fix it?

Why doesnít default sendmail and default SELinux work together?
Why is it when you go to add/remove software and you add the software it doesnít work with out days of searching for the right settings to add?
How come when you do the add software it doesnít set the correct settings?

who would love to use Linux but gets frustrated every time they use it
The above is funny.
Very funny.
Its a joke, right?

Linux works and tends to work right away.
Winsucks doesn't work. Ever. If it every *partially* works, then it will randomly decide to not work AT ALL.

As for configuring the system.... something not *perfect* with your linux install, go straight to the config file and adjust it. Sure beats clicking thousands of buttons with the hope that one of them might fix the problem you're having (but probably not).


Email problem?
In evolution. Edit --> Preferences --> Mail Accounts --> Add or Edit, then set your account the way you like it. That doesn't work? You obviously don't know the correct settings, in which case it wouldn't work in winsucks either.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26th June 2007, 05:20 AM
lmo Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,046
Maybe its just me, but when I install a new linux distro/version I keep running into the firefox ugly fonts nuisance. I was trying out Mandriva 2007 Spring, and the Fedora Forum looked horrible until I happened to find a fix that worked about 3/4 of the way down this page: http://www.beranger.org/index.php?pa...riva-s-seasons

I also got a minor case of the font uglies in Fedora7 and I'll try that fix.
I probably wouldn't have found that type of fix if I hadn't been searching for Mandriva firefox ugly font.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26th June 2007, 11:21 AM
bob Online
Administrator (yeah, back again)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colton, NY; Junction of Heaven & Earth (also Routes 56 & 68).
Age: 69
Posts: 22,233
(moved to Fedora Focus)

Got to add that Fedora is not a 'starter' distro. It's a test-bed for new tweaks and packages, not all of which work with existing programs and hardware. If you want a server, CentOS is an excellent choice, but I'd always test a Live CD version to see if it's compatible with my hardware before installation. While many people DO love Fedora for servers, the short life-span for versions may not make it a 'best choice'. Also, since you're new to linux and want to move a company over to it, I'd recommend a distro with paid support, such as Red Hat or SuSE. If you don't know the answer, you sure don't want your system going down while you wait for answers from a Forum of other users. Pay for expertise!
__________________
Linux & Beer - That TOTALLY Computes!
Registered Linux User #362651


Don't use any of my solutions on working computers or near small children.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26th June 2007, 12:56 PM
tw2113 Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Dakota
Age: 31
Posts: 505
Fedora runs the server in my head....I'm generally a bit crazy anyway, so occasional downtime to upgrade is needed.
__________________
If you're not questioning my sanity, I'm not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26th June 2007, 03:46 PM
JN4OldSchool Offline
"Sean The Terrible" -- The forum(er) Vistaģ rep
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,823
Must say I agree this doesnt sound like any kind of IT person. Still, the OP isnt exactly trolling and makes some good points even though it is from a limited perspective. My wife just changed jobs. She is now required to carry a laptop. Even worse, it must use XP or Vista and Office 2007 plus a load of medical software. I have to admit I secretly wanted to play with Vista anyway...So we buy a decent HP and i get a wireless linksys router to add to my network and I fight all that for two days now. The OP says Windows is easy and just works. I'm sorry, I have been using strict Linux for a couple years now and I beg to diffre. I forget the Windows ways. I know Linux. I finally have everything mostly straight, in fact i am typing this from Vista from the living room, and I must say Vista isnt near as bad as i thought. It is ok, it is still just Windows. I can live without it. But, since my wife is required to have it i guess I will stay aquainted with it a while longer. It sure aint no Linux though
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26th June 2007, 04:02 PM
Gnafu the Great Offline
Gideon Mayhak
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI, USA
Age: 27
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob
Got to add that Fedora is not a 'starter' distro.
Really? That's weird, 'cause I started out with it and it's always just worked for me .
__________________
Something new coming to this space soon...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26th June 2007, 04:31 PM
bob Online
Administrator (yeah, back again)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colton, NY; Junction of Heaven & Earth (also Routes 56 & 68).
Age: 69
Posts: 22,233
Gnafu, it sure can be done, but Linspire/PCLinuxOS/Ubuntu/Mandriva/Mepis are the ones I'd point people to. Being FOSS, there's a lot that Fedora can't add or won't point you towards. You have to do the searching (of course, with our help).
__________________
Linux & Beer - That TOTALLY Computes!
Registered Linux User #362651


Don't use any of my solutions on working computers or near small children.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26th June 2007, 04:43 PM
Gnafu the Great Offline
Gideon Mayhak
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI, USA
Age: 27
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob
Gnafu, it sure can be done, but Linspire/PCLinuxOS/Ubuntu/Mandriva/Mepis are the ones I'd point people to. Being FOSS, there's a lot that Fedora can't add or won't point you towards. You have to do the searching (of course, with our help).
I guess I'm just the kind of person that likes to figure things out. It ended up working out perfectly because I wanted to learn more about Linux than just as a Windows replacement, and Fedora forced me to do that. I guess I would agree to pointing people towards those wonderful, easy-to-use live CDs as a starting point. At the same time, some people just can't be satisfied with something so easy (like myself, and my coworker who really wants me to help him with Fedora because Ubuntu was too easy ).
__________________
Something new coming to this space soon...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26th June 2007, 04:47 PM
Dan Offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Paris, TX
Posts: 23,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka.trek
... Is it just me... but wouldn't someone being in this position be hired because they have an educational background in computers???

Assuming this person has an educational background in computers from which school did she/he graduate from??? This school doesn't teach their computer science majors about unix/linux??? Or how to configure them as print/mail/file servers? ...
In a world that made sense, I'd agree. However, in the real world, anything can ... and usually does happen.

Case in point. A company I have recently been involved with (Part time, and to be sure, a total waste of time and effort, however, it's better than sitting on my fat lazy duff!) the default designated "IT" person has no formal education, little or no informal education, is barely qualified to pronounce the names of half the things she's working on, and is 100% ego driven, using a plumb bob as a moral compass, and In all respects, as "blonde" as they come. Note that this assesment also ignores this particular lady's unmistakable tendency to respond to the latest self induced power struggle over the "IT prestige" than any needs of the company.

So, indeed it would be a remarkable advancement for the industry if most of the IT departments out there actually retained user manuals, kept halfway decent records, logged and communicate a quarter of the things they do in a cogent and meaningful set of reports, and ever bothered to go back and read or consult any of the afore mentioned items!

So I would argue that the OP could be exactly what he says he is. The Peter Principle is no longer a barrier to career advancement. And I am bluntly reminded of that every morning when I shave.


Dan
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26th June 2007, 04:52 PM
giulix Offline
"Fixed" by (vague) request
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GMT+ 1
Posts: 2,950
Please find the answers to your questions embedded in bold. Sorry I had to do this, but they were quite a few....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shallowz
Why doesnít Linux default settings work?


I guess because, like the name implies, they are fall-through settings. The same settings cannot be good for all. Can you be more specific as what default settings don't work for you ?


Why do these settings cause so many problems?

See above

Is it the lack of community that you canít find answers to problems?


See above, maybe you just missed them or, not being a Linux expert, just don't know where to look


Or is it that most people really donít understand Linux and have no real ideas how to fix it?


It depends on the level of fixing, really. If you need a new driver to be written to support your brand new wireless card, you better refer to the development mailing lists, as only a few people on this forum may be able to help you. If, on the contrary, you are looking for trivial or every day fixes, ask straight away and you'll be surprised by the level of support you are going to get (do abide to the forum guidelines, though, please)

Why doesnít default sendmail and default SELinux work together?

[I'll skip this, as I don't use SELinux: Do you really need to use it ?]


Why is it when you go to add/remove software and you add the software it doesnít work with out days of searching for the right settings to add?


If you're referring to missing support for proprietary codecs, it's a Fedora trait, so either you live with it or you change OS/distro (it's a bit like complaining because dogs bark). I must say I noticed that after the first few times, almost every one on this forum gets over it pretty quick... If you're referring to something else, again you should be more specific: Circumstanced evidence will get you a long way


How come when you do the add software it doesnít set the correct settings?


It depends on the software, really. For example, dhcpd does not come with a standard configuration because there are just too many kinds of networks out there and one configuration to suit everyone it's just plain impossible. On the contrary, bind is configured as a caching-only nameserver on all Fedora versions, which is appropriate for common situations and the majority of users. In fact, it works right out-of-the-box: Install, point, click.

Last edited by giulix; 26th June 2007 at 04:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fedora Mono Cluster Discussion enemyphoenix Servers & Networking 0 7th March 2009 01:00 AM
Fedora 7 on HP dv9000 - discussion and solutions shess01 Hardware & Laptops 1 6th August 2007 02:45 PM
Fedora frustrating the hell out of me - ati issue bino Hardware & Laptops 15 18th March 2007 01:05 PM


Current GMT-time: 11:33 (Saturday, 20-12-2014)

TopSubscribe to XML RSS for all Threads in all ForumsFedoraForumDotOrg Archive
logo

All trademarks, and forum posts in this site are property of their respective owner(s).
FedoraForum.org is privately owned and is not directly sponsored by the Fedora Project or Red Hat, Inc.

Privacy Policy | Term of Use | Posting Guidelines | Archive | Contact Us | Founding Members

Powered by vBulletinģ Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

FedoraForum is Powered by RedHat
...Creek Side - Stockholm-Arlanda Airport (ARN) Travel Photos on Instagram - Marina of Koper Travel Photos - Te Whiti Park Instagram Photos - Texas State Fair Photos on Instagram