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  #1  
Old 19th November 2007, 04:27 PM
Cira-San Offline
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Administration

I'm sure theres an answer posted on the forums about this already...but I can't find it. How do you make your account have root access? Fedora lets you set up admin info in the install but then the account it makes doesn't have root access. I've tried looking it up else where but terminal commands from other Linux flavors don't work in Fedora 8. Any help would be great, I need to fix all the AVC Denial's.
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  #2  
Old 19th November 2007, 04:38 PM
bbfuller Offline
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Hello Cira-San

Welcome to the forum.

There are about three ways to use root commands from your user command line.

/sbin/ifconfig

will run the ifconfig command because you have specified the full path to it.

Some commands will though require root privileges to work and you obtain those by issuing the command:

su

and entering your root password before issuing the command.

That will give you root privileges within your own users environment.

If you wish for full root access then the command:

su -

will give you that.

That is a minus sign after the su.

If you use the KDE desktop then Root terminals and file managers are accessible from the main menu.

Hope that helps.
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  #3  
Old 19th November 2007, 04:42 PM
scottro Offline
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This is a design decision which has made several people unhappy.

Basically, the only way I've found to get around it is to boot up in runlevel 3, log in as root, then type startx. You can boot up into X as normal user and try doing su - (note the -) which has worked in some cases, but in others, such as some dealings with my sound card, failed.

Unfortunately, while making it more difficult to do some tasks from the command line, they've made it more difficult to administer from the GUI. If you go back through the Fedora weeklys, you can find references to the entire thread on the Fedora mailing lists. (It's a few weeks old).

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/91454/index.html

There it is, with links to the mailing list thread.
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  #4  
Old 19th November 2007, 04:43 PM
Cira-San Offline
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It worked. Thanks. Is there a way to give the account full root permanently without have to do that every time?
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  #5  
Old 19th November 2007, 04:52 PM
forkbomb Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cira-San
It worked. Thanks. Is there a way to give the account full root permanently without have to do that every time?
I think you're confused as to what's going on. Your normal user name, whatever it may be (what you log in as at the login screen), is not "getting admin permissions". Linux systems by convention are multi-user systems with different permissions - root is the admin account, other accounts are user accounts usually with radically different permissions. When you type "su" or "su -" at a command line, you're logging in as root/administrator. You're not giving your normal account any more permissions than it had.

You can run Fedora at all times with the root account (just log in as root at the login screen) but that's highly discouraged. I suggest for the sake of not breaking your system running as normal user most of the time and logging in as root only when needed.

In fact, running as root is so unsecure (both from a standpoint of unintentionally breaking your system and if you get hacked while logged in as root), some people on the forum refuse to help people who make a habit of running as root for normal use.

It's not a good habit.
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  #6  
Old 19th November 2007, 04:57 PM
Cira-San Offline
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Well that helps and makes sense. I knew that Fedora something like that, but no one ever told how exactly they worked. Thanks again!
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  #7  
Old 19th November 2007, 05:03 PM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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Having used debian I think what the confusion here is is that the ability to log in as administrater is by default left unchecked. Please correct me if I am wrong, all my computers do log into the root account from the greeter with no problem. But I do know debian leaves this unchecked. You can go to the login preferences tab and check this to allow login as root. I use Xfce, but in Gnome just find where the login window menu entry is, probably in system or admin or preferences...and just check the option.

All that said, doing so is a STUPID idea!!! I will let Scottro slide as he is experienced and knows what he is doing. He assumes the risk and sometimes it is easier to just log in under root. But I have steered well clear of doing this at all the last year now. I just dont find it necessary and wont take the risk. In the end though it is the users choice and I assert that the choice does need to be available.
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  #8  
Old 19th November 2007, 05:17 PM
bbfuller Offline
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Although root is not on the login or greeter screen, it is always "possible" to type root and then enter the password at the login screen to gain full root access. It's rarely necessary though.

As far as I am aware it is only the Ubuntu's that prevent root access and that can be circumvented if desired.

That said, the ability to easily get a full root terminal or file manager on the users desktop is in my eyes a great plus for KDE.
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  #9  
Old 19th November 2007, 05:24 PM
forkbomb Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfuller
Although root is not on the login or greeter screen, it is always "possible" to type root and then enter the password at the login screen to gain full root access. It's rarely necessary though.

As far as I am aware it is only the Ubuntu's that prevent root access and that can be circumvented if desired.

That said, the ability to easily get a full root terminal or file manager on the users desktop is in my eyes a great plus for KDE.
Was just about to say that. Just tried it out of curiosity and was able to log in to a full-fledged root session, no problem. This box is Fedora 7, though, don't know about F8.

Sounds about right - the only distros I've run into that do the sudo tango are the *buntus.

(OT, as much as I can understand not running as root, I have to say - and I have before - I do not understand the allure of totally disallowing root login by default that you see in Ubuntu. That's just me, though. Two cents.)
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Last edited by forkbomb; 19th November 2007 at 05:25 PM. Reason: but i kin spel good, teachr
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  #10  
Old 19th November 2007, 05:27 PM
Cira-San Offline
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Well I only needed because of all the AVC Denials, while they aren't exactly active x controls, a similar interface would be nice. Something you can just click on. Like the auto fix fix button they wanted to put on it. Though to my knowledge, nothing about Linux has ever really been that simple...except Linux XP. I'm just going to have to learn a new prompt system
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  #11  
Old 19th November 2007, 05:37 PM
scottro Offline
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Thanks for letting me slide Mr. Old School. (Too long a nick to type--wait a sec, it took me longer to type that than to type the nick.)

Cira-san, when there is more than one solution posted, it's always good to say which one worked.

To try to sum up.... it's considered best practice to not log in as root. My issue with Ubuntu and Mac OS X for that matter is that all you have to do is go
sudo su - and bingo, you're root with your own user password, which is often weaker than the root password.

My issue with Fedora is that there are some things where the name of the actual application isn't always apparent--you wind up having to use a GUI menu or go through various and sundry searches to figure out what you're doing. At present, on fresh installs, I'm finding that root login isn't available from the GUI prompt. If you type root as the user name it just goes back to the original screen.

I have also found that for some reason (and it was probably a glitch of some sort on my particular installation) some things, if I used sudo or did su, then did an X configuration, didn't work. Perhaps I had to do su -, I don't know. The case in point was a redo of system-config-soundcard. As I boot up in level 3, (textmode) anyway, it wasn't a big deal.

As I said, there was some slightly acrimonious discussion about this decision on the mailing lists, and in the end it was more or less decided that root login from gdm would be disabled, and those who knew enough to log in as root would be able to do so. (However, I stopped following the discussion after awhile, so that might not be the final answer.)

My personal preference is for a system that doesn't try too hard to protect me from myself. However, I can certainly see the point--especially if you're a developer being abused by a user who managed to wreck their system. Remember, especially in the US, we're in a country where coffee cups have to have "THIS MIGHT BE HOT, IF YOU SPILL IT IT WILL HURT" on them in two languages or risk a lawsuit, so perhaps this over-protective thinking is just the latest American way.

So, to go back to the original--as far as I know, if you boot up in level 5 (graphic mode) with gdm, which is the default, the only way around it is to reboot into level 3, log in as root and startx. It's not good practice, though there might be times when it's necessary. In 99.9 percent of the cases, you can do what you have to do as user--if, as user, you try to run pirut, for example, you're asked for the root password, then continue in your user GUI environment.

My own PERSONAL preference, meaning it's not necessarily better, it's simply what I'm used to from years of FreeBSD is to use sudo rather than su. It might be more secure but has its own vulnerabilities.

Ok, I've typed too much.
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  #12  
Old 19th November 2007, 05:50 PM
Cira-San Offline
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bbfuller's worked... su and su - are what i needed otherwise the terminal wouldn't allow the script to work. As for your overprotection try doing something administrative in Vista. Though what do you mean when your talking about an X configuration?

(ot.. Im much more partial to Command Prompt :P But, for my personal preference it's still Fedora, DLS is fun but limited, 'buntoo is ok, fox linux is pretty, and honestly while Linux XP is great....wasn't the idea to get away from Windows? We need to stop sugar coating these things)
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Last edited by Cira-San; 19th November 2007 at 05:53 PM.
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  #13  
Old 19th November 2007, 06:12 PM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro
Thanks for letting me slide Mr. Old School. (Too long a nick to type--wait a sec, it took me longer to type that than to type the nick.)

Cira-san, when there is more than one solution posted, it's always good to say which one worked.

To try to sum up.... it's considered best practice to not log in as root. My issue with Ubuntu and Mac OS X for that matter is that all you have to do is go
sudo su - and bingo, you're root with your own user password, which is often weaker than the root password.

My issue with Fedora is that there are some things where the name of the actual application isn't always apparent--you wind up having to use a GUI menu or go through various and sundry searches to figure out what you're doing. At present, on fresh installs, I'm finding that root login isn't available from the GUI prompt. If you type root as the user name it just goes back to the original screen.

I have also found that for some reason (and it was probably a glitch of some sort on my particular installation) some things, if I used sudo or did su, then did an X configuration, didn't work. Perhaps I had to do su -, I don't know. The case in point was a redo of system-config-soundcard. As I boot up in level 3, (textmode) anyway, it wasn't a big deal.

As I said, there was some slightly acrimonious discussion about this decision on the mailing lists, and in the end it was more or less decided that root login from gdm would be disabled, and those who knew enough to log in as root would be able to do so. (However, I stopped following the discussion after awhile, so that might not be the final answer.)

My personal preference is for a system that doesn't try too hard to protect me from myself. However, I can certainly see the point--especially if you're a developer being abused by a user who managed to wreck their system. Remember, especially in the US, we're in a country where coffee cups have to have "THIS MIGHT BE HOT, IF YOU SPILL IT IT WILL HURT" on them in two languages or risk a lawsuit, so perhaps this over-protective thinking is just the latest American way.

So, to go back to the original--as far as I know, if you boot up in level 5 (graphic mode) with gdm, which is the default, the only way around it is to reboot into level 3, log in as root and startx. It's not good practice, though there might be times when it's necessary. In 99.9 percent of the cases, you can do what you have to do as user--if, as user, you try to run pirut, for example, you're asked for the root password, then continue in your user GUI environment.

My own PERSONAL preference, meaning it's not necessarily better, it's simply what I'm used to from years of FreeBSD is to use sudo rather than su. It might be more secure but has its own vulnerabilities.

Ok, I've typed too much.
My sentiments exactly. Especially in a distro like Fedora. I am sorry for all the people who will run ALL the time as root and eventually screw up their system or worse, be compromised, but Linux is about freedom and choice. What you do with your power is YOUR business. The best we can do is advise others.
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  #14  
Old 19th November 2007, 06:24 PM
bbfuller Offline
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Hello Cira-San

Just noticed your question in your last post.

X is the graphical server in Linux. Without it we would all be using something that looked like the Windows Command Prompt but full screen.

Within the graphical server we then run the desktop of our choice.

Hence an X configuration is setting up linux to display graphics and by extension the graphical user interface.
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  #15  
Old 19th November 2007, 06:43 PM
Cira-San Offline
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Oh, and just one more question. Since I'm using this box as a Test PC, can you make Linux see NTFS easily? Otherwise well only be able to use it to work on other Linux and mac boxes.
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