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  #1  
Old 3rd July 2009, 07:15 AM
pailott Offline
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Making New system: i386 or x86_64 ??

I am Making a New system: i386 or i386-64 ??
Intel Duo 2, DQ45 chip set.

Should I run 64 or stick with the i386 plain ?
I have never run a 64 version before.
Are there lots more problems, and/or limitations.
I like my system to run as smooth as possible.
I don't have much time to hack with my machines these days.

Is the 64 stuff usable or is it a lot of problems ?

Sorry for the naive question.

pailott
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  #2  
Old 3rd July 2009, 10:07 AM
Jake Offline
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Now, it's pretty much the same with no real problems, most packages are cross platform or run on both.

64 bit with can run 32bit packages if needed. (Though may need some tweaking)

Intel Duo 2? Isn't that 32bit cpu? Don't intels normally say "Core 2" to identify the 64? (Because their too lazy to write "64-bit" xD)

I think it is, though I could be wrong as I run AMD's.

Performance wise, 64-bit will be able to use a 64-bit cpu more, than 32-bit (As a 32-bit will only use 32-bits...) Though unless your doing something that can actually use the whole 64 bits, you probably won't notice a difference.

Also, I'm pretty sure 64-bit OS allows more RAM (More than PAE also? Though unsure)

I've run x86_64 now for a long time, does me fine :-)
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  #3  
Old 3rd July 2009, 04:35 PM
pailott Offline
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Jake,

thanks for the reply

I was lazy, it's a Intel Core 2 DUO E8500.

If running 64 is not faster (in general) than the 32 bit in general maybe its not worth the extra work.
What does use the 64 these days.

I think the thing I wonder about the most does anything use the 2 cores effectively ?
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  #4  
Old 3rd July 2009, 04:43 PM
kyryder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pailott View Post
What does use the 64 these days.
There are some packages like open vpn that are only available in 64-bit.
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  #5  
Old 3rd July 2009, 05:09 PM
pedromatiello Offline
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I'm not an expert on this subject, but this is my experience:

It seems that a 64-bit uses a bit more memory, but F11 is quite slim; Gnome + Compiz + Epyphany + Evolution + Rhythmbox + Gossip + Eclipse (Fedora's version, with many plugins) + Terminal is using here only 1.1GB of my RAM. I guess that if you are under 1GB of RAM, 32-bit might be a better choice. Otherwise, I'd go 64-bit.

About performance, I don't think there is any difference unless you are doing heavy number crunching (and then 64-bit shines).
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  #6  
Old 3rd July 2009, 05:16 PM
CSchwangler Offline
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I would say that you would benefit most of the 64-bit version, if you have 4GB of RAM or more, because 32-bit cannot address that RAM. With respect to using a Dual Core, there seems to be not much difference between 32 and 64 bit, at least, thats what I read from the forum. If anyone knows better, please correct me.
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  #7  
Old 3rd July 2009, 06:18 PM
pankajp Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromatiello View Post
I'm not an expert on this subject, but this is my experience:

It seems that a 64-bit uses a bit more memory, but F11 is quite slim; Gnome + Compiz + Epyphany + Evolution + Rhythmbox + Gossip + Eclipse (Fedora's version, with many plugins) + Terminal is using here only 1.1GB of my RAM. I guess that if you are under 1GB of RAM, 32-bit might be a better choice. Otherwise, I'd go 64-bit.

About performance, I don't think there is any difference unless you are doing heavy number crunching (and then 64-bit shines).
You are lucky then maybe, my F11 uses lots of memory. Gnome (no compiz) + Firefox + thunderbird + eclipse + the big python app i'm developing in eclipse uses all of my 2GB memory. If i do any command like yum install libfoo-devel, my laptop goes to swapping. I think in F12 i'll switch back to i586 if i dont see any benefit of 64 bit before it. But F11 does seem faster than F10 (was 32 bit), but i'm not sure if the improvement was due to 64 bit or due to F11
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  #8  
Old 3rd July 2009, 06:22 PM
Firewing1 Offline
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See this post from the Read Me First forum and this thread about moving to 64bit or not will also be of interest.

For day to day applications, using x86_64 / 64bit will not help you very much, and you will only notice increased RAM usage. However, if you have 4GB of RAM or more, or if you do some CPU-intensive tasks such as high amounts of database requests or video transcoding, you should start to notice a significant difference.

BTW - if you'd like I can rename i386-64 in the title to x86_64...
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Last edited by Firewing1; 3rd July 2009 at 06:24 PM.
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  #9  
Old 3rd July 2009, 07:44 PM
NoEffex Offline
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When I switched from 32-bit to 64-bit I noticed an immediate change in speed. It was maybe 5x faster in general. When I started doing more intensive apps the thing manhandled the app and sped it up maybe 10x.

I compiled the entire PSPSDK in 2 minutes flat. Normally it takes ~30 mins. I'm sure not too many people have tried doing it, it still takes a loonngg time to do on a 32-bit machine.

I recommend 64-bit over 32-bit any day. I take up about 300mb of ram at any given point in time, and since I have a lot more than that, I haven't noticed any difference in ram.

The only thing that will really happen if you upgrade to 64-bit is your computer will basically become on steroids without any negative side-effects.
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  #10  
Old 3rd July 2009, 09:10 PM
rpstitz Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firewing1 View Post
See this post from the Read Me First forum and this thread about moving to 64bit or not will also be of interest.

For day to day applications, using x86_64 / 64bit will not help you very much, and you will only notice increased RAM usage. However, if you have 4GB of RAM or more, or if you do some CPU-intensive tasks such as high amounts of database requests or video transcoding, you should start to notice a significant difference.

BTW - if you'd like I can rename i386-64 in the title to x86_64...
I checked out that first link and I found a problem...

Quote:
Is my processor 64bit capable?

Before you download 32bit or 64bit Fedora, be sure the differences between 32bit (x86, also called i386) and 64bit (x86_64), ensure you processor supports the 64bit instruction set.

* At the moment, most if not all AMD processors are 64bit capable however if you'd like to be sure, check AMD's website. If you have a Athlon 64 or Opteron processor, it is 64bit capable.
* Only recent Intel processors (newer-gen Pentium 4 and higher) are 64bit capable - to check, look at your CPU flags and look for EM64T.
* Here is how to identify your processor and its flags on various platforms:
o Linux: Execute "cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -e flags -e "model name" | uniq"
o Windows: Use the CPU-Z utility
o Mac OS X: Any Mac with a Intel processor will support x86_64. G5 processors also support 64bit, but not with the x86 instruction set. Instead, use ppc64.
I thought all Core 2 Duo chips were 64-bit, but that post says to look for the EM64T flag to make sure...I didn't find that one so is my laptop not 64-bit compatible? Here's what it tells me about the flags:

Code:
[rpstitz@richard ~]$ su
Password: 
[root@richard rpstitz]# cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -e flags -e "model name" | uniq
model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T5250  @ 1.50GHz
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm
model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T5250  @ 1.50GHz
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm
[root@richard rpstitz]#
I looked twice and I cannot find mention of the EM64T flag. I will be installing F11 on this laptop soon, and was seriously considering 64-bit until now.

And pailott, I recommend 64-bit because I have had great success with F11_64 on a new computer....but I also recommend AMD processors. I don't know how good or bad your experience will be using an Intel processor, so let us know how it does, please. There you go, my 2¢ worth plus a little
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Last edited by rpstitz; 3rd July 2009 at 09:13 PM. Reason: I said register instead of flag..I dunno why.
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  #11  
Old 3rd July 2009, 09:13 PM
NoEffex Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpstitz View Post
I checked out that first link and I found a problem...



I thought all Core 2 Duo chips were 64-bit, but that post says to look for the EM64T flag to make sure...I didn't find that register so is my laptop not 64-bit compatible? Here's what it tells me about the registers:

Code:
[rpstitz@richard ~]$ su
Password: 
[root@richard rpstitz]# cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -e flags -e "model name" | uniq
model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T5250  @ 1.50GHz
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm
model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T5250  @ 1.50GHz
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm
[root@richard rpstitz]#
I looked twice and I cannot find mention of the EM64T flag. I will be installing F11 on this laptop soon, and was seriously considering 64-bit until now.

And pailott, I recommend 64-bit because I have had great success with F11_64 on a new computer....but I also recommend AMD processors. I don't know how good or bad your experience will be using an Intel processor, so let us know how it does, please. There you go, my 2¢ worth plus a little
Intel works fine, too. I use a..I think it is pentium E3200 dual core or something. It is part of the Core 2 family, just cheaper.

Generally the laptop ones aren't 64-bit, as my brother, who has had I think 2 laptops with core 2 processors, have not been 64-bit. That's just laptop, though.
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  #12  
Old 3rd July 2009, 09:30 PM
Firewing1 Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpstitz View Post
I checked out that first link and I found a problem...

I thought all Core 2 Duo chips were 64-bit, but that post says to look for the EM64T flag to make sure...I didn't find that one so is my laptop not 64-bit compatible? Here's what it tells me about the flags:
Not all Core 2 Duo chips are x86_64 compatible - some of the lower-end ones and some of the Celeron Duo's (which for some reason Intel seems to use interchangeably with the lower-end Core 2 Duos) are not x86_64 capable.

Although, come to think about it, I completely forgot that flag was renamed... Sorry about that. I've updated the page as the new flag name for x86_64 capabilities is "lm".
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpstitz View Post
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T5250 @ 1.50GHz
You're safe
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Last edited by Firewing1; 4th July 2009 at 04:34 AM.
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  #13  
Old 3rd July 2009, 09:37 PM
rpstitz Offline
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whew! awesome. Thanks very much.

The processor(s) identify as Core 2 Duo, and the sticker on the case says Centrino Duo...but the website specs say Core 2 Duo and no mention of Centrino at all. Confusing.
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  #14  
Old 4th July 2009, 04:37 AM
Firewing1 Offline
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Yeah, I've noticed that on quite a few recent laptops as well. The first time I thought it was a mislabel, but apparently not...
Edit: Hrm, apparently Centrino is Intel's platform that incorporates their CPUs, wireless cards, chipsets and a bit of other hardware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino
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Last edited by Firewing1; 4th July 2009 at 04:40 AM.
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  #15  
Old 4th July 2009, 06:09 AM
pailott Offline
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Wow I started a big discussion !!! How about that ???

Thanks for the great discussion. I am reading through it carefully, and I like the links
with the extra info. At this point I'm leaning towards taking the plunge. I guess since I'm keeping my F7 machine (P4) up and running in parallel I can afford to experiment for a few weeks and see how it goes. If I crash and burn too much I can always start again with a 386 load. I am putting 4GB of memory in the box, and I just picked up a 1 TB SATA drive. Imagine,,,, 1 TB.

How times have changed from my first computer experience 35 years ago !!

As for the title, sure firewing you can change it (make it correct that is).

Thanks again everyone. I get my machine at the end of next week, so I have another week to study on it !!
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