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  #1  
Old 8th November 2009, 11:26 PM
darkman088 Offline
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Jack and Pulseaudio

Hello,

I would like to ask a very simple question, with a (probably) very complicated answer. Is it possible to run simultaneously Jack and Pulseaudio and enjoy both of them? (meaning to work with Rosegarden and hear the sound if somebody calls me on Skype, take the call, finish it and continue the work in Rosegarden). I'm running 32 bit Fedora 11.
I have tried this:

http://www.harald-hoyer.de/linux/pulseaudio-and-jackd

which is by far the best guide I have seen on the topic and I would like to thank the author, but it is not working for me. My result is, that I have to chose between Jack and Pulseaudio (Skype becomes a very silent application, after starting Jack).

So, is it possible, or I have to wait until Rosegarden and let's say Rezound get a better sound compatibility.

Bump: Come on, guys!!
Anybody, please...
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  #2  
Old 11th November 2009, 08:02 AM
ogetbilo Offline
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With Fedora 12, pulseaudio is supposed to not block Jack. So you will be able to use both simultaneously. But enjoying? I don't know. I think the words "enjoy" and "pulseaudio" shouldn't be used in the same paragraph.
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  #3  
Old 11th November 2009, 09:08 PM
darkman088 Offline
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Hi Ogetbilo,

thanks a lot for your answer!! Sounds pretty promising and Constantine is about to be there in a week or so :-) I can wait till then without any problem.
I just hope that I wont need to reinstall everything, cuz I just got it working finally (except for THE SOUND!!).
With enjoying, I was meaning enjoying it working :-)
Sorry for my ignorance... Not that I am really a noobie, I know Linux since maybe 1997, but never have been using it seriously till now. I dont get all these issues about the sound. So many standards, so much stuff... And the users of other OS dont even know the name of the technology their saound is based on, simply cuz its working...
I guess I will need to read more about pulseaudio...
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  #4  
Old 17th November 2009, 04:07 PM
darkman088 Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Come on, guys !!
Fedora 12 is out now, I did yum update pulseaudio and nothing...

No Packages marked for Update

There has to be a way to have working audio!!
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  #5  
Old 21st November 2009, 11:01 AM
Quasaur Offline
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Re: Jack & Pulseaudio

I got a major breakthrough when I installed pavucontrol (my mic wasn't working). However, having been for many years a debian/ubuntu/kde3 user with a good, working sound system, I now am facing (mainly due the the KDE4 debacle) aclimating myself to the GNOME/pulseaudio technology of Fedora 12.

My current problem is getting jackd to even load...I suspect there may be a kernel module that needs loading, but I have no idea which...any ideas?

Edit: the 0.118 version of the jack-audio-connection-* rpms solved the problem...now i just need to figure out how to get VMPK to work!
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  #6  
Old 26th November 2009, 08:01 PM
alukin Offline
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Ther's no real solution yet. Running PA on top of jacks is stupid trick but who needs PA if jackd is running?
All the time with new Fedora release I try to run qjackst, qsynth and Rosegarden and this stuff does not work with PA. Only reliable solution for this is "yum remove pulseaudio". If you need PA for something like bluetooth set, you may try kill PA process when you need to run jackd but this does not work from time to time... So only problem without PA is espeak that hangs.
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  #7  
Old 27th November 2009, 03:08 PM
Quasaur Offline
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Re: Jack and Pulseaudio

I once ran 'yum remove pulseaudio" under F11 and it looked as if all of GNOME was being thrown out with it.

My question is: can Jack-Audio do everything Pulseaudio does? can i run Rhythmbox or Banshee through jack-audio?

Last edited by Quasaur; 27th November 2009 at 03:15 PM.
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  #8  
Old 17th December 2009, 04:36 PM
darkman088 Offline
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OK, here I am to report back... My other post didn't find even a single reply... :-(
So, I have tried Fedora 12. And there I faced the same problem as Quasaur - jack even refuses to start.
For me, killing pulseaudio and running Rosegarden with pasuspender rosegarden is also an acceptable workaround (yeah, so low are my expectations from Linux audio!!) but I am not getting any MIDI sound output at all !!
This is my sound device:

00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03)

I am executing this at startup:

/sbin/modprobe snd-seq-oss

and I also have uncommented the thing, that is by default disabled in later Fedora versions, which "should" re-enable MIDI. But in Rosegarden I have no sound at all :-(

PLEASE help me !!
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  #9  
Old 20th December 2009, 09:03 PM
alukin Offline
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Well, if you need perfect sound for sound-oriented tasks, the best solution IMHO is jack. Though PulseAudio setted up to not disable jackd both do not work.

One solution is to stop PA completely before running jackd. The second is "yum remove pulseaudio" that removes the bastard completely. I use always 2nd solution because I use sound editing and musiacl tools like audacious and rosegarden and jamin and others.

In KDE you also must "killall knotify4" to unlock alsa device. I do not why but this stupid program locks it.
If you need to know which process locks alsa device, type " fuser /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p" and kill that beast you'll see.

So, stop or remove PA, stop other stupid programs that lock alsa device and then start jackd or qjackctl. Then start your sound programs and set it to use jack intput/output.

One thing you should check is ability to gain RT privileged for user, see /etc/security/limits.conf
There must be lines:
@audio - rtprio 100
@audio - nice -10

And your user must be in group "audio", see /etc/group.


On F12 even with intel chip and cheap codecs I have perfect sound.

If you have sound card without MIDI, use fluidsynth + qsynth. Do not forget to check "Studio" menu in rosegarden to connect to right MIDI device, port 144 is fluidsynth's

---------- Post added at 11:03 PM CST ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM CST ----------

PS. To be honest, PA has such a stupid design and implementation that it will never work with professional sound tools. I told this many times to Fedora community but they do not agree, do not know why. May be Lennard Poettering is big boss in RH and they must obey his evil will

Last edited by alukin; 20th December 2009 at 08:59 PM.
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  #10  
Old 23rd December 2009, 09:53 AM
darkman088 Offline
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Hello Alukin,

thanks a lot for the nice reply. I will certainly try your suggestion, but I'm gonna have time for this next year probably :-)
Please could you describe the procedure about fluidsynth + qsynth in more details, as it doesn't ring any bells for me.

Thanks a lot and Merry Christmas :-)
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  #11  
Old 12th January 2010, 07:26 PM
darkman088 Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Hello,

I have tried roughly this... Unfortunately, it doesn't work :-(
I have installed both packages fluidsynth + qsynth.
I didn't touch /etc/group and /etc/security/limits.conf, because I believe that this won't "magically" make my laptop play MIDI.
Please kindly correct me if I am wrong.
I did killall pulseaudio and started jackd.

Afterwards, I didn't get any sound, playing some of the sample files :-( I opened the menu Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices,
but I only have 14:0 Midi Through Port-0 (duplex) there, and nothing more, no port 144. This is in Play devices.

PLEASEEE help me!!

Last edited by darkman088; 12th January 2010 at 07:48 PM.
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  #12  
Old 15th January 2010, 05:05 PM
Quasaur Offline
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Re: Jack and Pulseaudio

It's been my experience that on Fedora 12 jackd is intermittent: sometimes it loads, and sometimes it doesnt.

if you're running any version of Skype PRIOR to jackd you can forget it...you have to reboot and NOT run Skype.

Jackd seems to have a problem co-existing with other audio software...this should be addressed.
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  #13  
Old 15th January 2010, 07:40 PM
tripleninez Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasaur View Post
It's been my experience that on Fedora 12 jackd is intermittent: sometimes it loads, and sometimes it doesnt.

if you're running any version of Skype PRIOR to jackd you can forget it...you have to reboot and NOT run Skype.

Jackd seems to have a problem co-existing with other audio software...this should be addressed.
you don't have to reboot - just log out, jack and it should be fine!

---------- Post added at 02:40 PM CST ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM CST ----------

you might try to install fedora 12 again and do a custom install....use the "advanced" part for installing packages, completely remove pulseaudio - it is not needed if you are using jack, and will cause problems, regardless of if you have heard otherwise....pulseaudio is crap - striaght up!

you might also want to get the Planet CCRMA repositories, and use the rt-kernel from there, as well as getting all audio apps/packages from there....most of that stuff works out of the box! and is pretty reliable. not only that you shouldn't have to do any real configuration to get things up and running.

my setup works great on my laptop...and took no effort compared to any other linux-proaudio setup i have had.

i am running fedora 12, on a Dell inspiron 6400, Intel Core Duo 1.6ghz, 320gig HD and IntelHDA...

i can run mutliple VST(wineasio) and use all and anyway audio apps, jack works with zero xruns(buffer of 128), latency is around 8.71msec....

the biggest thing for me, was until i did a custom install and removed pulseaudio and used planet CCRMA, NOTHING really worked properly, i hope this helps...?

you sound pretty frustrated!
cheerz

ts9
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  #14  
Old 22nd January 2010, 07:36 PM
darkman088 Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Hi,

I really didn't think of the things properly. One of my acquaintance gave me an idea to simply try playing a .mid file with mplayer. So I mounted my XP partition and tried it with the files in windows/media... And... No sound at all. Nothing...
Any ideas why?

Thanks...
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  #15  
Old 2nd February 2010, 12:11 AM
tripleninez Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkman088 View Post
Hi,

I really didn't think of the things properly. One of my acquaintance gave me an idea to simply try playing a .mid file with mplayer. So I mounted my XP partition and tried it with the files in windows/media... And... No sound at all. Nothing...
Any ideas why?

Thanks...

probably has nothing to do with windows, and totally to do with mplayer...
i say this because i .mid file is a cross-platform standard....midi is midi!

try them in another player!

i don't use mplayer so i am not sure why they wouldn't work...

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM CST ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM CST ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasaur View Post
It's been my experience that on Fedora 12 jackd is intermittent: sometimes it loads, and sometimes it doesnt.

if you're running any version of Skype PRIOR to jackd you can forget it...you have to reboot and NOT run Skype.

Jackd seems to have a problem co-existing with other audio software...this should be addressed.
jackd doesn't like to co-exist with pulseaudio, jack runs perfectly under fedora 12.
atleast, if you are using jack from planet CCRMA. if using pulseaduio you must use the command "pasuspender" when executing jack - this kills pulseaudio for when jack is running..
and that is why you can think jackd is "intermmitent". it's not, it just doesn't like pulseaudio!

..in fact, if you plan on using jack, you shouldn't even bother using pulseaudio, it is more overhead and increases latency - defeating the whole purpose of the jack api in the first place. being as it is a low-latency driver!

jack --> pulaseaudio --> alsa

or cut out the middle man

jack --> alsa

muc better!

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM CST ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM CST ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasaur View Post
I once ran 'yum remove pulseaudio" under F11 and it looked as if all of GNOME was being thrown out with it.

My question is: can Jack-Audio do everything Pulseaudio does? can i run Rhythmbox or Banshee through jack-audio?
most apps can run through jack you might need to look in your package manager for other jack components to make it work ie: alsa to jack package, things like that!

that is because you aren't removing it without dependencies...

"yum remove --nodeps pulseaudio" or something like that.

"yum --help" or "rpm --help"
"man yum" or "man rpm"

for further help
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