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Old 19th September 2010, 02:14 PM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Angry Motherboard Configuration issue

Ok, this isn't exactly a Fedora question, but i'm loosing my mind over it...

I just went out and bought stuff to build a new computer, and among the parts was a Gigabyte ga-890fxa-ud5 motherboard ( http://www.google.com/images?q=gigabyte+ga-890fxa-ud5 ). The board has 3 (well, 4, but we'll stick to the 3) main sata interfaces, with 2 slots per interface, allowing 6 sata drives. In slot_0 i put my blu-ray drive, in slot_1 i put my drive that will host the OS and its partitions, and that is in the sata connector pair on the left. The middle sata connector pair (slot_2 and slot_3) i have 2 2tb drives, and in the sata connector pair on the right (slot_4 and slot_5) i have 2 1.5tb drives.

So, you would expect BIOS/CMOS to list this as (SG=seagate, WD=WesternDigital):
1: cd/dvd (eg)
2: 1.5TB WD
3: 2tb SG
4: 2tb SG
5: 1.5tb SG
6: 1.5tb SG

or even like this:

0: cd/dvd (eg)
1: 1.5TB WD
2: 2tb SG
3: 2tb SG
4: 1.5tb SG
5: 1.5tb SG

but, instead, they're being listed like this:

0: cd/dvd (eg)
1: 2tb SG
2: 1.5TB WD
3: 2tb SG
4: 1.5tb SG
5: 1.5tb SG

which is unexpected.

So, i turn the sata controller into raid mode, and when entering the raid setup utility, they're listed correctly. I setup a raid, and install 14 alpha on the only hdd that doesn't have a double (the OS is unraided; i only raid storage drives), and 14 will not boot (it also complains about the raid, which i may start another thread for).

When i take the 1st 4 sata drives out from the connectors, and connect them so that they will list correctly in CMOS/BIOS, then the are listed out of order in the raid setup. For example, if i ACTUALLY CONNECT them in this order:


0: cd/dvd (eg)
1: 2tb SG
2: 1.5TB WD
3: 2tb SG
4: 1.5tb SG
5: 1.5tb SG

then they show up like this in CMOS:

0: cd/dvd (eg)
1: 1.5TB WD
2: 2tb SG
3: 2tb SG
4: 1.5tb SG
5: 1.5tb SG

which is how i WANT them to show up, as that is the logical order. But the raid setup utility shows them being out of order, because they are. So, wtf is going on here; do i have a bad board? I've googled this for a few hours now, trying to find a clear representation of how this is SUPPOSED to work, so that i can determine if i have a bad drive, but i can't seem to fine a clear definition of what is considered a "channel".

I've attached a couple of pix to clarify what i'm trying to say... (in the picture of CMOS i disconnected the 2 drives (blu-ray and Linux drive) that were in the first bay/channel).

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Last edited by Vector; 19th September 2010 at 10:27 PM.
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  #2  
Old 20th September 2010, 12:39 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

When i switch the sata controller mode from Native IDE to AHCI (instead of RAID), it also lists them correctly; but evidently the Linux Installation CD (Live) does not like AHCI drives, so i had to put it back into IDE mode. And when i go through the Linux installer with the SATA controller back in IDE mode (the only way i can get it to work), Linux sees them correctly listed in the order they're plugged in; but again, CMOS does NOT, AND, to make matters worse, i can't even get to boot after installing --i just get the grub prompt every time...

I took a few more pix of what i'm seeing, i'll attach them shortly...
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  #3  
Old 20th September 2010, 01:02 AM
oxala Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Hello again Vector,

Firstly, don't smash anything unless you invite me. I have not smashed a computer in years ... I'm a little overdue!

Secondly. One thing that strikes me as ODD ... the "IDE Master", "IDE Slave" junk ... There should be a bios setting that allows you to see sata drives as sata drives. It looks like you have some sort of legacy support enabled. I'll take a look at the instructions for your mobo ... as of now it's just a hunch.

Thirdly, your bios should also have a "drive order" setting, that defines the order in which the drives are presented to the os. It really should not matter which slots you plug into ... though I like mine in a particular order myself .

This is fun ... right?


oxala

---------- Post added at 06:59 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM CDT ----------

OK ... I see your bios has a "hard disk priority" setting .... one down! ...

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 PM CDT ----------

BINGO! "On Chip Sata Type" ... probably s/b set to AHCI, not Native IDE, which is the default
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  #4  
Old 20th September 2010, 01:34 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Yeah, the hard disk priority has no affect. It's almost like the motherboard is saying "Well, THIS is hard drive one", but it's passing "THAT one" instead of "This one". It's like it's not passing anything over to grub correctly, because it's not reading them correctly. I've set the drive priority, and when it still didn't boot, i went into rescue mode with the installer and redid the grub-install /dev/sda but it made no difference. I still get the grup prompt, or just an "error 14" (or was is 15?). When i'm at the grub prompt i've tried doing "root (hd0,0)", but it said that the partition appears to be corrupted or invalid.

I'm not really a "hardware" guy, but i'm no noob either. This is got me pretty aggravated (considering i've spent 1,400$ on this new computer, and i'm now 3 days behind on my clients' projects).

Thanks. My cell phone is being an ass right now, so i can't send myself the pix of what i wanted to show...

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM CDT ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxala View Post
BINGO! "On Chip Sata Type" ... probably s/b set to AHCI, not Native IDE, which is the default
Well, when i tried that, i could not run the Fedora installer from the blu-ray drive. I can't remember what it complained about...

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM CDT ----------

Yeah, if you can see in the screen shot, that option is only for the 3rd bay (slot_4 and slot_5). When i put it in IDE mode, fedora will actually boot, but i don't get a boot screen, so i can't modify the boot parameters to add nouveau.modeset=0 (so that X will start correctly), which means the system is unusable. It also complains about hardware stuff while booting, such as "cpu0 not responding... cpu1 not responding... cpu5 not responding". If i put that option for slots 4/5 into "As SATA Type" i just get "Read Error" and it doesn't boot at all...


OH, what fun!

---------- Post added at 08:34 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 PM CDT ----------

EDIT: That last option i spoke of assumes that "On Chip Sata Type" IS set to AHCI
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  #5  
Old 20th September 2010, 01:38 AM
oxala Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Hello,

Wow! That just reminded me that I was unable to run the FC13 installer from my dvd/cdrom drive. I know there are some threads about it.

My solution was to run the install from a usb stick ... if you don't own one, you should ... they are cheap, can be obtained at Wallgreens, and can survive several cycles through the washing machine and dryer ... :P

I'm not sure I understand your latest issue ... are you booting from what you have already installed, or from the cdrom media?


oxala
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  #6  
Old 20th September 2010, 02:30 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

I was booting from what i already installed. I'm currently reading through this thread here ( http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...a-ud5-ud7.html ) to see if anyone else had this issue... I might just join that site just to see if anyone there might know wtf is going on with this issue...

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM CDT ----------

flashing the bios made no difference whatsoever.
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  #7  
Old 20th September 2010, 02:49 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

More pix to show what i mean...
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  #8  
Old 20th September 2010, 03:47 AM
oxala Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Hello,

I am a little lost as to where you currently stand.

If you can boot into a a "live cd", whether from cd or usb stick, you can edit the file /boot/grub/grub.conf and change it to look like:
Code:
timeout=5
#hiddenmenu
Of course, while in there, you can add the nomodeset or whatever boot option you already know you need.

The first screenshot you posted ... looks like the disks are being recognized correctly.

oxala
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  #9  
Old 20th September 2010, 03:56 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Well, i've kinda picked up the thread here: http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...5-ud7-180.html because these guys actually have the same board. BTW, i think one of my brand new 2TB drives JUST went out!
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  #10  
Old 20th September 2010, 08:57 PM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Ok guys, i broke down and switched to an ASUS ( http://www.google.com/search?q=Asus+...TX+Motherboard ), and as soon as i powered it on, it started booting Fedora. But what is odd is that the sata order that the bios was using on the Gigabyte board is the SAME order that is PRINTED on the ASUS board (it was printed and documented incorrectly on the gigabyte board). The drives show up in order in CMOS on the ASUS board*; however, when it boots, it reads them in a WEIRD order, AND Fedora sees them in a different order!

I give up. There must be something about these new boards that i just didn't read about. I must be missing something somewhere. But at least i've got a working system. It just seems to me that if the motherboard says that the order is "sata1,sata2,sata3...", and you plug your drives in that order, then they should SHOW UP in that order, in both CMOS and the OS... I just don't get it... It really eats at my very soul to install my OS to "/dev/sdd", when the drive is in the first sata slot, AND CMOS shows it as being the first drive*.



Thanks for your help, guys; it's much appreciated.


* one of the two CMOS screens show it right, and one shows it wrong. I don't know why there would be a difference...
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  #11  
Old 21st September 2010, 05:21 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Oh, something i forgot to add: My drives were NOT going out; the mobo just didn't pick them up sometimes, and sometimes it did. Also, one of the guys at the overclock forums said that his drives were listed out of order too, so i didn't have a bad board, it was just a crappy mobo design.

After switching to the ASUS i don't have the problem with the drives disappearing from time to time; but, as you can see, they're still out of order in some areas.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM CDT ----------

I was wrong, my 2 2TB drives has disappeared completely, and i made NO change to the BIOS/CMOS. They are consistently gone, not intermittently.

There must be SOME sort of reserved or recommended use for some of these slots which is not documented anywhere. Why would ANY manufacturer want to put its patrons through such a miserable experience? This is just a damned nightmare...

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM CDT ----------

I GOT IT!!! Damn the manufacturers for mystifying this so much! Ok, so, if you have this motherboard, here's how you get the drives to be ordered correctly in BOTH bios/cmos and your OS....

First, we assume that you have 2 IDENTICAL 1.5TB drives which will be raided, and 2 IDENTICAL 2TB drives that will be raided, and 1 1.5TB drive that the OS will be on and will not be raided. This also assumes that you want to use KERNEL raid, instead of onboard bios/firmware raid (which may lock you into proprietary raid metadata, and also still requires effort from the OS to raid the drives, which translates to the same amount of work as a kernel raid, without the flexibility and portability of a kernel raid (see: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=251726 )).

The sata ports layout is as such:

Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|	SATA1		|	SATA2		|	SATA5
|	1.5tb (OS)	|	EMPTY		|	2tb (RAID)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|	SATA3		|	SATA4		|	SATA6
|	1.5tb (RAID)	|	1.5tb (RAID)	|	2tb (RAID)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that SATA2 is purposely empty. That leaves us room to add another 1.5tb drive later if we decide to raid the OS drive (which, again, we are not (i back up the /home directory almost daily, and it doesn't take long to reinstall the OS; i'm more concerned about the storage drives that the OS drive)). Also note the WEIRD way that they number the sata ports (EDIT: ok, it seems that sata ports 1-4 are SATA type, and ports 5 and 6 are PATA type, not that i know wtf that means entirely, but i'll look further into that now...). Both ASUS and Gigabyte do that, only, with the Gigabyte boards, they are misprinted on the motherboard AND the manual (at least, it seems that way; but what do i know?).

How did i get the two 2tb drives to reappear? How did i get them all to list correctly in both BIOS/CMOS and the OS? It turned out to be a simple damned setting in bios, that is EVIDENTLY FAULTY! What led me to it was hearing my two 2tb drives clicking loudly (remember, they weren't even showing up). So, i decided to check what the tranfer/bus speed rating was (eg, sata 3/gps or sata 6/gps). They were 3/gps. The sata speed in bios was set to "AUTO". Well, evidently "AUTO" doesn't work. I manually set it to "3GPS", hit F10, rebooted, and, WHALA: everything fell into place.

Shame on gigabyte and ASUS for not being more thorough in making sure that everything worked in an orderly and uniform manner, and for a sheer lack of documentation. I'm still shocked to see, after searching for 4 DAYS, that i am evidently the only person who's had this problem (maybe i'm the only one who cares about things appearing in the order i attach them in!).

Many thanks to all who helped. I hope that this helps someone else. Now, on to researching how to use kernel raid.............

---------- Post added 2010-09-21 at 12:21 AM CDT ---------- Previous post was 2010-09-20 at 08:53 PM CDT ----------

Also, this does NOT apply to AHCI mode. I HAVE to use IDE mode. When i switch to AHCI mode, they are read in a different order in bios than they are in the AHCI controller, and the 1st drive with the OS on it is NOT even a boot option; the only boot options are one of the last drives, and the cd/dvd drive.

Last edited by Vector; 21st September 2010 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 02:41 PM
droidhacker Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

The actual order of the disks is totally irrelevant.
The bios selects boot disk priority on the basis of drive SERIAL NUMBER.
GRUB is installed on the disk you set to boot from, and sets the disk it booted from as the first disk, kernel and initramfs (and fstab, etc) are all on the basis of partition UUID.

I have, on occasion, found boards that do not like to consistently detect certain disks. On one machine I solved this by setting the bios to perform a FULL MEMORY SCAN, which gives a little more time for the drives to negotiate.
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Old 23rd September 2010, 03:32 AM
Vector Offline
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Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Thanks. The next time i try something like this, i'll keep that in mind. I never installed Fedora when i seen that the desired drive was /dev/sdd. I went almost all the way through the installation process, and when i got to the screen after the partitioning tool, where you set which drive the boot loader is installed from and which system is your default OS, i aborted because i seen that it was still listed as /dev/sdd. When i finally got the desired drive order, i then installed, etc. And here i am.

Next time, i'll try going all the way through the install to see what happens.

Another thing that i noticed while setting up a RAID was that the sata ports 5 and 6 were displayed as PATA...

Thanks.
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Last edited by Vector; 23rd September 2010 at 03:35 AM.
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  #14  
Old 5th November 2010, 05:58 AM
Vector Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Update, if you have this motherboard (the Gigabyte OR the ASUS) then you need to read this thread here:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=253501

Oh, it would appear that drive model numbers play no part in order, i think. You can see that in the other thread...

Last edited by Vector; 5th November 2010 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 5th November 2010, 07:08 AM
steelaworkn Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: Motherboard Configuration issue

Could it be as simple as your Master/Slave issue? IMHO, you don't need several masters. So, which ever drive you put your /boot partition on, make that the master and the rest slaves. Oh, and the /boot partition should really be no less than 500 megs. Also, realease all your F6 RAID software and firmware so that your drives are free from your OEM RAID software.

Next, insert your cd and use the LVM RAID that comes with Fedora. There is a guide in the Fedora Documentation. The cool thing about LVM is that you can partition the first drive 1000megs of ext3 and then 500 of that to be boot. And then use the remaining amount of that drive in your RAID 5 set-up. Your /swap /home and /root is all configured on the RAID 5 array. As a Linux rule, /boot cannot be part of the array.

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM GMT ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM GMT ----------
Oops...this should work
Fedora User Guide

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM GMT ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM GMT ----------

OOOOPs again, this should get you to the user guide.

---------- Post added at 11:08 PM GMT ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM GMT ----------

I'm really struggling here. But this is the right page
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Intel DP35DP MB; Nvidia 440 2 gig Video Card; 8 gigs of ram; Intel Core Duo 2.20 gig; Hp Officejet Pro L7580; LVM F20 64bit using 3 320g HDs and dual monitors.

Last edited by steelaworkn; 5th November 2010 at 07:03 AM.
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