why not ext2 (or even 3)?

MichaelBurns · #1 16th December 2010, 06:47 PM

I would really like to use ext2, mainly just because I have become vaguely familiar with it and it is comfortable to me, but also because I want my usb stick (to which I want to install Fedora) to last as long as possible (i.e. no journalling). Why does Fedora 14 insist on ext4 (i.e. my ext2 filesystem choice isn't good enough for the installer)? Is there a trick to install on ext2? I don't actually care about file permissions AT ALL (please don't strike me down), but I use ext instead of fat because it is THE Linux filesystem.

By the way, I did allow the installer to reformat my usb stick to ext4, just to see how reasonable it is to install to a usb stick (instead of, say, a hard drive), and it seemed to function normally. I prefer to use a live usb with persistence anyway, so this is all just moot. I just like playing around and exploring the pros and cons of different Linuxes.

***DBelton*** · #2 16th December 2010, 07:17 PM

You must be using the live CD to install from.

The full install DVD (or CD's) let you change the type of filesystem. The live CD just copies over the filesystem from it's install image.

Download the full install DVD and you can change it to ext2 or ext3 if you wish.

However, there are benefits to using ext4 that have nothiing to do with journalling. Like using extents for example. If you wish to, you can disable journalling on an ext4 filesystem and keep the other benefits.

If you like playing around with the different options, and exploring the different things you can do, then you should get the full install DVD instead of the live image.

leigh123linux · #3 16th December 2010, 07:17 PM

The livecd is a EXT4 image so you can't change the file system.

MichaelBurns · #4 16th December 2010, 09:12 PM

Thank y'all so much! That is a simple solution! I will try it.

update:

Well, that's a large file (>3 GB), so I don't think that I will have luck getting a clean download. Any download over a few 100 MB gives me major grief. (The FEL iso that I have took four solid attempts, and I guard those 1.5 GBs jealously.) I've already tried to download the dvd twice: once it just stopped at about 500 MB (with no explanation nor error message, as if it were a success), and the second time it just "failed". I just don't need the ulcer. (I don't understand these download problems, but for one thing it means that I have to start over repeatedly.)

Thanks again anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh123linux

The livecd is a EXT4 image so you can't change the file system.

Actually, on second thought, I don't follow this. I'm not trying to CHANGE the filesystem on the livecd; I want to install FROM the livecd ONTO A DIFFERENT device, which happens to be ext2 already (I formated it that way "manually"). Surely the livecd understands other filesystems, I mean I even used the livecd to format the target usb stick to ext2; the installer just doesn't like it. Would you mind to elaborate (beyond just stating that it can't be done, which I already knew)? What is it about the ext4 that the OS can't function without in ext2? Please don't think that I'm being rude, I just want to understand how the installation process works.

***DBelton*** · #5 17th December 2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelBurns

Thank y'all so much! That is a simple solution! I will try it.

update:

Well, that's a large file (>3 GB), so I don't think that I will have luck getting a clean download. Any download over a few 100 MB gives me major grief. (The FEL iso that I have took four solid attempts, and I guard those 1.5 GBs jealously.) I've already tried to download the dvd twice: once it just stopped at about 500 MB (with no explanation nor error message, as if it were a success), and the second time it just "failed". I just don't need the ulcer. (I don't understand these download problems, but for one thing it means that I have to start over repeatedly.)

Thanks again anyway.

Actually, on second thought, I don't follow this. I'm not trying to CHANGE the filesystem on the livecd; I want to install FROM the livecd ONTO A DIFFERENT device, which happens to be ext2 already (I formated it that way "manually"). Surely the livecd understands other filesystems, I mean I even used the livecd to format the target usb stick to ext2; the installer just doesn't like it. Would you mind to elaborate (beyond just stating that it can't be done, which I already knew)? What is it about the ext4 that the OS can't function without in ext2? Please don't think that I'm being rude, I just want to understand how the installation process works.

Have you tried downloading the using bittorrent? bittorrent is designed to download the file in a lot of small pieces, and you are able to stop and start it in the middle of a download. It's able to restart back where it was stopped. What it does is to split a file into a lot fo small pieces, and download the pieces. Then it puts them back together again. There are some links to torrent files on the fedora download page.

And the filesystem image on the live cd is ext4. When you install from the live cd, it just copies it's image to your hard drive, so the filesystem ends up being ext4. There isn't any way to change it on the install from a live cd. IF you wish to change your filesystem type, then you have to download the full install that allows you to select the filesystem type.

Now, if the journalling option is all that you don't like about ext4, then you can install from the livecd, then go back and change your journalling options using tune2fs, or in the mount options in /etc/fstab.

JamesNZ · #6 17th December 2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelBurns

Well, that's a large file (>3 GB), so I don't think that I will have luck getting a clean download

If you are on a slow internet connection bittorrent might download v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y, at least it does for me on dial-up. So if that doesn't work you might want to try getting a download manager. A download manager can start/stop partial downloads and many of them download with multiple links so it downloads faster.

The two I have tried for windows are Download Accelerator Plus and Free Download Manager. Neither of them work on linux so I recommend FlashGot which integrates with Firefox and tons of download managers like Aria, wxDFast etc.

Oh, and Merry Christmas

MichaelBurns · #7 17th December 2010, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBelton

Have you tried downloading the using bittorrent?

I knew someone was going to bring that up, but I forgot to mention my experience with it. (I'm feeling very scatter-brained right now; haven't slept much; too much playing with Fedora.) I made a very good faith effort to try the torrent approach (more polite to the network etc.). However, after literally days of constantly trying to download several files, and having the downloads start over, or claim to be finished but fail the checksums, I have never once successfully downloaded (or whatever you call it) an iso image using the torrent approach. So, yes, I have tried downloading using the torrent approach, but, no, I have not tried it for this particular dvd iso. Perhaps I've been using the torrent application incorrectly ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNZ

... you might want to try getting a download manager.

Hmmm. Sounds like this might be a good investment. Thanks. I will look into it.

marko · #8 17th December 2010, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelBurns

I knew someone was going to bring that up, but I forgot to mention my experience with it. (I'm feeling very scatter-brained right now; haven't slept much; too much playing with Fedora.) I made a very good faith effort to try the torrent approach (more polite to the network etc.). However, after literally days of constantly trying to download several files, and having the downloads start over, or claim to be finished but fail the checksums, I have never once successfully downloaded (or whatever you call it) an iso image using the torrent approach. So, yes, I have tried downloading using the torrent approach, but, no, I have not tried it for this particular dvd iso. Perhaps I've been using the torrent application incorrectly ...

Hmmm. Sounds like this might be a good investment. Thanks. I will look into it.

You could just use wget with the continue option, for example:

Code:

wget -c http://download.fedoraproject.org/pu...x86_64-DVD.iso

wget will continue to try to get the file and even if it drops the connection, rerunning the command will start off the file at the point you quit.

MichaelBurns · #9 17th December 2010, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko

wget will continue to try to get the file and even if it drops the connection, rerunning the command will start off the file at the point you quit.

I did not know that. Thank you for the tip. I will try that. (But not tonight; I am done for the evening, and the computer is getting shut down now, yes, right now.)

However, I am suspicious. The firefox downloader creates a "part" file, which I thought would serve the same purpose, but alas ...

***DBelton*** · #10 17th December 2010, 08:07 AM

I have found firefox to be inconsistent in being able to resume a download. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. It probably depends on where you are downloading it from, too. Some sites don't support resume.

All of the Fedora mirrors "should" support resume, but I have never really tried to see if they do or not.

leigh123linux · #11 17th December 2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBelton

I have found firefox to be inconsistent in being able to resume a download. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. It probably depends on where you are downloading it from, too. Some sites don't support resume.

All of the Fedora mirrors "should" support resume, but I have never really tried to see if they do or not.

It didn't work last time I tried, my download stopped at 2Gb so I grabbed the torrent and used it to finish the broken/part download.

***DBelton*** · #12 17th December 2010, 08:45 AM

I haven't ever tried using a .part file created in firefox and complete it with bittorrent before.

I use Transmission mostly for my bittorrent client, and I know it creates .part files as well.. Was it able to just pick up where firefox left off?

I am assuming that you probably moved the .part file into your torrent download folder (or point your torrent client into the directory where firefox downloaded it), loaded the torrent file, then verified the local data.

Sounds like it would work

I just haven't ever thought about using torrent to complete a download started by firefox before.

stevea · #13 17th December 2010, 09:01 AM

Wow - this is really trying to solve a simple problem the hard way.
You can remove the journal from an ext3/4.
You don't need to download or re-install anything.

To modify an ext3 or ext4 to NOT have a journal the file system must be either unmounted OR mounted read-only. So for example to modify the rootfs, you can boot in single-user mode ,and execute "mount / -o remount,ro"

Here is the command to remove the journal from /dev/sda1 (which must a next3 or ext4,
tune2fs -O ^has_journal /dev/sda1

From then on you'll see that dmesg recognizes this fact with a message like ...
[ 3.453980] EXT4-fs (sda1): mounted filesystem without journal. Opts: (null)

In my opinion there is no reason to use ext2 or ext3 any more.

Here are some other tips for reducing the amount of writes ....
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=256068

You can't use TRIM on a usb flash drive, but the rest is relevant.

***DBelton*** · #14 17th December 2010, 09:07 AM

good point there stevea.. I mentioned just removing the journal from the ext4 filesystem back up there in post #5.. I just didn't go into the details of how to do it, but would have if interest had been shown in doing it.

And I agree. There are numerous benefits to using ext4 over etx3 or ext2.

leigh123linux · #15 17th December 2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBelton

I haven't ever tried using a .part file created in firefox and complete it with bittorrent before.

I use Transmission mostly for my bittorrent client, and I know it creates .part files as well.. Was it able to just pick up where firefox left off?

I am assuming that you probably moved the .part file into your torrent download folder (or point your torrent client into the directory where firefox downloaded it), loaded the torrent file, then verified the local data.

Sounds like it would work

I just haven't ever thought about using torrent to complete a download started by firefox before.

I started the torrent the paused the client, then I used mv to move and rename the iso (dropped the .part) to my torrent download folder then resumed the download.
I don't get any free time to use Transmission

as I maintain two other client programs for fedora (qbittorrent and torium), all my torrent download time is used for testing qbittorrent (a very active project).

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/p...packageID=7704