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  #1  
Old 1st May 2012, 02:04 AM
mmix Offline
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CERN discovers new particle

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-scien...s-new-particle

Quote:
Physicists using the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) particle accelerator have discovered their first brand-new baryon, a particle consisting of three quarks.
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  #2  
Old 1st May 2012, 05:09 AM
DBelton Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

and after the millions or even billions of dollars spent, the discovery of particle Xi_b^* is going to contribute how many dollars back to pay for it's cost?
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  #3  
Old 1st May 2012, 05:14 AM
RHamel Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBelton View Post
and after the millions or even billions of dollars spent, the discovery of particle Xi_b^* is going to contribute how many dollars back to pay for it's cost?
Well look on the bright side, at least the earth didn't get sucked down into a black hole.

Last edited by RHamel; 1st May 2012 at 06:56 AM.
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  #4  
Old 1st May 2012, 05:22 AM
DBelton Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

I could think of quite a few people on this Earth that I would love to see get sucked down into a black hole, but for the most part, I want to keep Earth just the way it's supposed to be
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  #5  
Old 1st May 2012, 05:32 AM
TK492 Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBelton View Post
I could think of quite a few people on this Earth that I would love to see get sucked down into a black hole
Haha +1, nicely put! Same here
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  #6  
Old 1st May 2012, 08:35 AM
mmix Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

After all, in the end, money doesn't mean anything. just paper.
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  #7  
Old 1st May 2012, 10:22 AM
Dan Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBelton View Post
I could think of quite a few people on this Earth that I would love to see get sucked down into a black hole, but for the most part, I want to keep Earth just the way it's supposed to be
Hmmm.

Is there a collection jar set up?
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  #8  
Old 1st May 2012, 10:37 AM
stevea Online
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBelton View Post
and after the millions or even billions of dollars spent, the discovery of particle Xi_b^* is going to contribute how many dollars back to pay for it's cost?
Pretty sure you aren't arguing against DB' - but CERN costs ~$9Bln USD and is one of the most expensive sci projects ever. Of course CERN contributes to ScientificLinux and a lot of other software projects, tho' worthwhile it's not worth the $9B (or about $18/EU citizen). In this feedlot of a life we humans mostly live it's good that the sheeple occasionally look up and discover something more interesting and less self-absorbed and frivolous than facebook, twitter, Ipads or similar navel-gazing exercises.

Tho' we can't readily place a dollar value on this discovery, it's worth noting that no one is able to predict how applications can arise from basic research. The classic example - ~1895 Wilhelm Roentgen was experimenting with high voltage discharge in a Lenard tube and noticed the discharge fogged film plates in a drawer nearby. By the end of 1895 he produced an Xray image of his wife's hand. Four months after publication Xrays were used to set broken bones in England. If you wanted to find a way to better set broken bones you wouldn't start with high voltage discharges. Don't discount the value of research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmix View Post
After all, in the end, money doesn't mean anything. just paper.
'Money' is a tool used for trade and makes trade vastly more efficient. As governments print bills - it merely dilutes the value of the bills and they may eventually cease to act a money (I'm not some kookie gold-bug, but I do understand the quantity theory of money)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity_theory_of_money

So money is transaction media variable rate proxy for goods. To say 'money doesn't mean anything' ,is precisely equivalent to saying shelter, food, water don't mean anything - IOW nonsense thinking dressed up as folk-wisdom.
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  #9  
Old 1st May 2012, 11:02 AM
mmix Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

something is hidden, heh.. but money is just paper, after all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism:_A_Love_Story
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  #10  
Old 1st May 2012, 11:20 AM
Dan Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

We're creeping pretty close to the edge of politics here.
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  #11  
Old 1st May 2012, 01:00 PM
Gareth Jones Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBelton View Post
and after the millions or even billions of dollars spent, the discovery of particle Xi_b^* is going to contribute how many dollars back to pay for it's cost?
I assume you jest, but as a physicist it's pretty depressing seeing the constant hostility to "blue-skies" science these days. It may take decades (or longer) for scientific knowledge to start to show its material value, and we can rarely predict when or what that will be, even after it starts to become valuable. R&D is not what science is about, and R&D needs input from above to have anywhere to go. A hundred years ago, Relativity and Quantum Mechanics were interesting new ideas, but not immediately of use. Today our day-to-day lives rely on them (think microchips, artificial satellites etc.).

Also, there's a lot more being done at CERN (some of it more immediately useful), and it's hard to but a cost on the discovery of a single particle amongst all that goes on...

Anyway, I'll go get my anti-gravity machine finished before you get your black hole generator on line!

EDIT: Sorry Dan if that's getting too close to politics.

Last edited by Gareth Jones; 1st May 2012 at 01:06 PM.
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  #12  
Old 1st May 2012, 02:57 PM
Dan Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Not close at all. And as far as that goes, I do believe that pure research is vital, inevitable and essential to mankind. We will always need some place to employ the otherwise unemployable savant eggheads of academia, <....> <....>

I do think, however, due to their intrinsic qualities, that they should be strictly limited in their access to innocent animals, small children, the staff coffee pot, public restrooms ... and fissionables. <....>
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  #13  
Old 1st May 2012, 03:02 PM
Evil_Bert Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

You know, when they went to name a class of particles after someone, they could have chosen better than "Barry".
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  #14  
Old 1st May 2012, 03:04 PM
Dan Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

I suppose you would have preferred the, "Berton"? <....>

Or the Clydon

Or the Murphyon

Or the Peteron

Or the Danon ... Ok. Maybe not that one. Sounds too much like a cup full of half-spoiled of yogurt. <....>
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  #15  
Old 1st May 2012, 03:30 PM
aleph Offline
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Re: CERN discovers new particle

Although we're talking about CERN here, let's look at some figures of the USA for that's what I could find on the web and should presumably be quite close.
http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data...function-in-bi
(Java applet required)
Look at the proportion of "General science, space, and technology", which is no more than 1% of government spending. If number says anything, I'd say it's money very wisely spent and is extremely profitable. This 1% is what is vital to the other big programs, especially medical aid and defense (not that I'm justifying the military spending etc, I'm not American so spare me).

And I invite you to read this anecdote http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/res...icle_phys.html
Quote:
Pastore: Is there anything connected in the hopes of this accelerator that in any way involves the security of this country?
Wilson: No sir; I do not belive so.
Pastore: Nothing at all?
Wilson: Nothing at all.
Pastore: It has no value in that respect?
Wilson: It only has to do with the respect with which we regard one another, the dignity of men, our love of culture. It has to do with those things. It has nothing to do with the military, I am sorry.
Pastore: Don't be sorry for it.
Wilson: I am not, but I cannot in honesty say it has any such application.
Pastore: Is there anything here that projects us in a position of being competitive with the Russians, with regard to this race?
Wilson: Only from a long-range point of view, of a developing technology. Otherwise, it has to do with: Are we good painters, good sculptors, great poets? I mean all the things that we really venerate and honor in our country and are patriotic about. In that sense, this new knowledge has all to do with honor and country but it has nothing to do directly with defending our country, except to make it worth defending.
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